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You're not wrong, but there are absolutely massive amounts of government intrusion and surveillance that I personally would accept as an alternative to rotting

You're not wrong, but there are absolutely massive amounts of government intrusion and surveillance that I personally would accept as an alternative to rotting in jail.

panic 9y ago
The choice isn't just between rotting in jail and something like Promise, though. Many of us on this forum could pay bail and face neither. That's the fundamental injustice here, I think.
- Cyberdog 9y ago
  Are you saying the injustice is that some people can afford to bail out and some cannot? Or is the injustice that the bail concept exists in the first place? If the former, then what are we going to do about it? Enforced income equality programs have been quite disastrous in human history. If the latter, well, yes, it's a weird way to get around the fact that the state technically cannot be locking people up that aren't convicted of a crime yet. And for the poor, it very well may be that the choice is between jail and something like Promise.
  - phaedradiana 9y ago
    We are pragmatic founders. We spent most of our professional like advocating for these changes and realized we wanted a more immediate solution. We are also worried that the absence of bail can actually lead to more incarceration. Kentucky got rid of private bail but the system is still fundamentally unjust.
phaedradiana 9y ago
Yes. It is why the app does not do continuous GPS monitoring and does not store days of GPS data.
- zestyping 9y ago
  Okay, so this is a statement of what Promise does not do today. Will it never do these things? What are the lines you will not cross? Have you seen https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/new-frontier-e-carceration-trading-physical-virtual-prisons https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/new-frontier-e-carcera..., and would you be willing to commit to the recommended guidelines at http://centerformediajustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/electronic-monitoring-guidelines-final.pdf http://centerformediajustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/...?
phaedradiana 9y ago
But, no to staying in jail as a choice. I share the concern about storing data.

You're not wrong, but there are absolutely massive amounts of government intrusion and surveillance that I personally would accept as an alternative to rotting in jail.

panic 9y ago

The choice isn't just between rotting in jail and something like Promise, though. Many of us on this forum could pay bail and face neither. That's the fundamental injustice here, I think.

Cyberdog 9y ago
Are you saying the injustice is that some people can afford to bail out and some cannot? Or is the injustice that the bail concept exists in the first place? If the former, then what are we going to do about it? Enforced income equality programs have been quite disastrous in human history. If the latter, well, yes, it's a weird way to get around the fact that the state technically cannot be locking people up that aren't convicted of a crime yet. And for the poor, it very well may be that the choice is between jail and something like Promise.
- phaedradiana 9y ago
  We are pragmatic founders. We spent most of our professional like advocating for these changes and realized we wanted a more immediate solution. We are also worried that the absence of bail can actually lead to more incarceration. Kentucky got rid of private bail but the system is still fundamentally unjust.

phaedradiana 9y ago

Yes. It is why the app does not do continuous GPS monitoring and does not store days of GPS data.

zestyping 9y ago
Okay, so this is a statement of what Promise does not do today. Will it never do these things? What are the lines you will not cross? Have you seen https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/new-frontier-e-carceration-trading-physical-virtual-prisons https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/03/new-frontier-e-carcera..., and would you be willing to commit to the recommended guidelines at http://centerformediajustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/electronic-monitoring-guidelines-final.pdf http://centerformediajustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/...?

phaedradiana 9y ago

But, no to staying in jail as a choice. I share the concern about storing data.