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There is such a thing as for profit for good. Perhaps they believe they can be both better and cheaper than prisons at the same time. That allows them to provid

There is such a thing as for profit for good. Perhaps they believe they can be both better and cheaper than prisons at the same time. That allows them to provide a compelling pitch to governments and convince them to direct funds to Promise instead of prisons. The government wins because it's cheaper, their users win because they are not incarcerated, and they win because they have cash flow. These types of businesses are not impossible to create.

criddell 9y ago
> There is such a thing as for profit for good. Their association with Y Combinator doesn't help with that impression. How many other venture funded start ups exist to provide a societal benefit while making only a modest return? Isn't the goal a big exit? They might not be venture funded yet, but they aren't at Y Combinator for the coffee, right? I know this sounds super cynical, so please tell me why I'm wrong. Why is this a good thing?
- ceejayoz 9y ago
  > How many other venture funded start ups exist to provide a societal benefit while making only a modest return? YC has a non-profits program. https://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ https://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ I don't see any indication that Promise is going non-profit, though.
- grivescorbett 9y ago
  Who says anything about a modest return? How much does the U.S. spend on prisons? How much does the world spend on prisons? Say they operate at a 30% discount, how much revenue is that? Off the top of my head, a lot.
gt_ 9y ago
>These types of businesses are not impossible to create. This is amazingly uninformed. Let’s stop pretending private businesses were born yesterday and just consult history. Privatization of human rights is despicable and this is not a lesson that needs to be learned again. Do you know why we never had private prisons before? They incentivize corruption of the most vulnerable fabric of our society. No excuse.
- grivescorbett 9y ago
  I agree that for-profit prisons are not good for society. But does this one (granted, massive) mistake mean that we can no longer try to innovate in this space? Does it mean that the only model is publicly funded rehabilitation? That's obviously not worked either.
  - Jemmeh 9y ago
    Exactly. I think there's a lot of things to consider around it all, for-profit prisons have a LOT of problems. But if we found that microwaving food for prisoners saved a lot of time cooking and thus also the amount of time we had to pay for people to cook for prisons that would be a good thing...at least it would be if that money gets funneled back to the point that a taxpayer is paying less. As it is I assume it just goes into the pocket of whoever runs the for-profit prison.
  - criddell 9y ago
    > does this one (granted, massive) mistake mean that we can no longer try to innovate in this space? No, but we should learn from those mistakes, right? When a company makes money from prisoners and more prisoners mean more money, then the incentives are a problem.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Do you know why we never had private prisons before? You mean, before 1852?
dminor 9y ago
A profit motive can lead to perverse and unforeseen incentives, even despite the best intentions of the founders, who someday will not be running the company. The private prison industry routinely lobbies for higher fines & longer sentences because it is to their benefit to have more people go to prison. Promise appears to have a similar incentive.
smw 9y ago
This aims to be much closer: http://benefitcorp.net/faq http://benefitcorp.net/faq. Companies with the ability to operate for-profit, but without the obligation for maximizing shareholder profit.

criddell 9y ago

> There is such a thing as for profit for good. Their association with Y Combinator doesn't help with that impression. How many other venture funded start ups exist to provide a societal benefit while making only a modest return? Isn't the goal a big exit? They might not be venture funded yet, but they aren't at Y Combinator for the coffee, right? I know this sounds super cynical, so please tell me why I'm wrong. Why is this a good thing?

ceejayoz 9y ago
> How many other venture funded start ups exist to provide a societal benefit while making only a modest return? YC has a non-profits program. https://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ https://www.ycombinator.com/nonprofits/ I don't see any indication that Promise is going non-profit, though.
grivescorbett 9y ago
Who says anything about a modest return? How much does the U.S. spend on prisons? How much does the world spend on prisons? Say they operate at a 30% discount, how much revenue is that? Off the top of my head, a lot.

gt_ 9y ago

>These types of businesses are not impossible to create. This is amazingly uninformed. Let’s stop pretending private businesses were born yesterday and just consult history. Privatization of human rights is despicable and this is not a lesson that needs to be learned again. Do you know why we never had private prisons before? They incentivize corruption of the most vulnerable fabric of our society. No excuse.

grivescorbett 9y ago
I agree that for-profit prisons are not good for society. But does this one (granted, massive) mistake mean that we can no longer try to innovate in this space? Does it mean that the only model is publicly funded rehabilitation? That's obviously not worked either.
- Jemmeh 9y ago
  Exactly. I think there's a lot of things to consider around it all, for-profit prisons have a LOT of problems. But if we found that microwaving food for prisoners saved a lot of time cooking and thus also the amount of time we had to pay for people to cook for prisons that would be a good thing...at least it would be if that money gets funneled back to the point that a taxpayer is paying less. As it is I assume it just goes into the pocket of whoever runs the for-profit prison.
- criddell 9y ago
  > does this one (granted, massive) mistake mean that we can no longer try to innovate in this space? No, but we should learn from those mistakes, right? When a company makes money from prisoners and more prisoners mean more money, then the incentives are a problem.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Do you know why we never had private prisons before? You mean, before 1852?

dminor 9y ago

A profit motive can lead to perverse and unforeseen incentives, even despite the best intentions of the founders, who someday will not be running the company. The private prison industry routinely lobbies for higher fines & longer sentences because it is to their benefit to have more people go to prison. Promise appears to have a similar incentive.

smw 9y ago

This aims to be much closer: http://benefitcorp.net/faq http://benefitcorp.net/faq. Companies with the ability to operate for-profit, but without the obligation for maximizing shareholder profit.