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Indonesia, one of the poorest and most religious countries, is also one of the least violent (#57; USA: #24).

by dhs 16y ago

vorg 16y ago
At one time it was compulsory for all Indonesians to officially have a religion. Is it still so? I believe the reason was opposition to Communism by the Indonesian government.
jeromec 16y ago
That's a good point. Interestingly, that religion is Muslim. But if we compare countries with similar GDP the U.S. is put to shame. Even Germany beats us for being less violent, and less religious.
- jacoblyles 16y ago
  You're working very hard here to twist the world into your preconceived view. Are you sure it fits? I'm an atheist too, but I still believe in good statistics.
  - jeromec 16y ago
    No, I'm the last person to "twist the world" to my views. I believe in observation and evidence. Do I have a theory that there is a correlation between religion and violence? Yes. Have I explored that correlation beyond glancing at a few charts? No.
- arst 16y ago
  But if we only compare countries with similar GDP (per capita, presumably) to the US then the sample size becomes tiny and the US is an outlier on the religiosity scale. You seem to be trying to imply a correlation exsits between religiosity and violence based on a single outlier from a tiny sample.
michaelkeenan 16y ago
Indonesia is also very corrupt (111th out of 180 in Transparency International's index, and I have encountered the police corruption there first-hand). I wonder whether the corruption might be so bad that people wouldn't report murder to the police, and so the official statistic might be lower than it should be? The former anti-corruption chief of Indonesia was jailed earlier this year for conspiracy to murder. I could imagine that if he's not the only government official organizing murders, then that might not reliably be reported to the police. (This is poorly-informed speculation and I wouldn't be surprised if some knowledgeable person writes a scathing correction. Better information would be appreciated.)

Indonesia, one of the poorest and most religious countries, is also one of the least violent (#57; USA: #24).

by dhs 16y ago

Indonesia, one of the poorest and most religious countries, is also one of the least violent (#57; USA: #24).

vorg 16y ago

At one time it was compulsory for all Indonesians to officially have a religion. Is it still so? I believe the reason was opposition to Communism by the Indonesian government.

jeromec 16y ago

That's a good point. Interestingly, that religion is Muslim. But if we compare countries with similar GDP the U.S. is put to shame. Even Germany beats us for being less violent, and less religious.

jacoblyles 16y ago
You're working very hard here to twist the world into your preconceived view. Are you sure it fits? I'm an atheist too, but I still believe in good statistics.
- jeromec 16y ago
  No, I'm the last person to "twist the world" to my views. I believe in observation and evidence. Do I have a theory that there is a correlation between religion and violence? Yes. Have I explored that correlation beyond glancing at a few charts? No.
arst 16y ago
But if we only compare countries with similar GDP (per capita, presumably) to the US then the sample size becomes tiny and the US is an outlier on the religiosity scale. You seem to be trying to imply a correlation exsits between religiosity and violence based on a single outlier from a tiny sample.

michaelkeenan 16y ago

Indonesia is also very corrupt (111th out of 180 in Transparency International's index, and I have encountered the police corruption there first-hand). I wonder whether the corruption might be so bad that people wouldn't report murder to the police, and so the official statistic might be lower than it should be? The former anti-corruption chief of Indonesia was jailed earlier this year for conspiracy to murder. I could imagine that if he's not the only government official organizing murders, then that might not reliably be reported to the police. (This is poorly-informed speculation and I wouldn't be surprised if some knowledgeable person writes a scathing correction. Better information would be appreciated.)