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15 hour days for 6 months? Nope, fuck you. Not only are you doing worse work than you normally would at a sustainable rate but you're also putting tons of pres

15 hour days for 6 months? Nope, fuck you. Not only are you doing worse work than you normally would at a sustainable rate but you're also putting tons of pressure on people's home life. I saw 3 divorces at my second studio from people working hours along those lines. If you really think that's sustainable then you have no place in this or any other tech industry. We aren't in emergency service or work in an environment where lives are on the line. Those hours have no place here.

Technolithic 9y ago
> We aren't in emergency service or work in an environment where lives are on the line. Obviously these jobs have occasional acute long work times but I'd say that jobs where lives are on the line is precisely where society doesn't want chronically sleep deprived workers.
Retric 9y ago
It's 10 to 12.5 hour days six days a week. My sister is an animator for Disney and they do this every other year. But they also have significant bonuses associated with these crunches it's not unpaid overtime. Not something I want to be part of, but 30+k bonus for six months of hell is a choice many people would happily take. Hell look at fishing boats they do 15 hour days of hard and dangerous manual labor. But, again they tend to pay people for that effort.
- vvanders 9y ago
  > 30+k bonus for six months of hell 30,000 / (35 * 2 * 4 * 6) = ~$17/hr = ~34k/yr That seems like a poor deal for putting your family through 6 months of hell. > Not something I want to be part of Then don't fucking endorse it!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - mcbits 9y ago
    What does the 2 represent? I assume the 4 is 4 weeks and the 6 is 6 months. The 35 must be the high end of 60 to 75 (instead of, say, the average), minus 40 hours. A normal non-crunch work week is more like 45 hours due to breaks and meals, not counting the commute. 30,000 / (22.5 * 4 * 6) = ~$55/hr = ~$110k/yr
    - vvanders 9y ago
      Overtime.
      - mcbits 9y ago
        That's better than what I thought you were doing, dividing by 2 years or a 2-week pay period. But I don't think it makes sense to adjust for overtime here anyway. Would an $8/hour retail worker say, "I don't want to work overtime for the holiday crunch. Those extra hours are like working for only $8/hour after adjusting for overtime"?
  - Retric 9y ago
    First your not even using my range assuming 60-75 just means 75 and assuming a normal week is only 40. People still get sick and go to dentist appointments etc during crunch. They just don't take 2 week vacations. So, it's closer to 46$ / hour: 30,000 / (52 weeks * 1/2 year * 25 hours) Anyway, if you consider doing this 1 out of 4 years that's 60k extra for a 'hell' year not bad for a 22 year old. And again 30k is for entry level people it can go up quite a bit. Alternatively, many Animators only work crunch they end up working 6 months a year and taking 6 months off.
    - vvanders 9y ago
      > People still get sick and go to dentist appointments etc during crunch. They just don't take 2 week vacations. Yes they do and they catch a ton of shit for doing it. I got tore into one day because I dared to leave at the early hour of 11:00pm having got to the office at 8am that morning. Look, it's obvious that you haven't been on one of these death marches and so you don't really understand what type of a toll that it puts on a team. My example of hourly rate was to point out that it's an awful trade on one side for putting your family through 6 months of hell. If money was really the important factor here then people wouldn't be working for entertainment companies because compensation is worse across the board(from engineers to animators/artists and designers). I work with a ton of ex-gamedev people who've made the transition out and there's literally no comparison. Your $46/hr rate for instance doesn't even crack based Google SWE pay, not including their bonuses. I get that there's a prestige and a sense of accomplishment of working at Disney/your dream studio. That still doesn't excuse them from grinding people into the ground with these insane hours.
      - Retric 9y ago
        This is not the pay of Google SWE, these are Animators that start at far lower base salaries. Some people get 100+k bonuses for doing crunch, it's really relative to salary. Look I have done the whole you work sleep or eat and nothing else for peanuts. That does not mean everyone who works 50+ hour weeks is getting shafted. As to family obligations, not everyone is in that boat. Sure, working insane hours may not seem like a great way to spend your early 20's, but it's also not required that everyone do this. You can make a solid living without pulling crunch time, but it's reasonable for the option to exist. Really, step outside your bubble. Some people working 80 hour weeks pull in a few million per year, they have options and still chose that lifestyle. PS: And nobody is forced to do this, if nothing else quitting is an option.

Technolithic 9y ago

> We aren't in emergency service or work in an environment where lives are on the line. Obviously these jobs have occasional acute long work times but I'd say that jobs where lives are on the line is precisely where society doesn't want chronically sleep deprived workers.

Retric 9y ago

It's 10 to 12.5 hour days six days a week. My sister is an animator for Disney and they do this every other year. But they also have significant bonuses associated with these crunches it's not unpaid overtime. Not something I want to be part of, but 30+k bonus for six months of hell is a choice many people would happily take. Hell look at fishing boats they do 15 hour days of hard and dangerous manual labor. But, again they tend to pay people for that effort.

vvanders 9y ago
> 30+k bonus for six months of hell 30,000 / (35 * 2 * 4 * 6) = ~$17/hr = ~34k/yr That seems like a poor deal for putting your family through 6 months of hell. > Not something I want to be part of Then don't fucking endorse it!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- mcbits 9y ago
  What does the 2 represent? I assume the 4 is 4 weeks and the 6 is 6 months. The 35 must be the high end of 60 to 75 (instead of, say, the average), minus 40 hours. A normal non-crunch work week is more like 45 hours due to breaks and meals, not counting the commute. 30,000 / (22.5 * 4 * 6) = ~$55/hr = ~$110k/yr
  - vvanders 9y ago
    Overtime.
    - mcbits 9y ago
      That's better than what I thought you were doing, dividing by 2 years or a 2-week pay period. But I don't think it makes sense to adjust for overtime here anyway. Would an $8/hour retail worker say, "I don't want to work overtime for the holiday crunch. Those extra hours are like working for only $8/hour after adjusting for overtime"?
- Retric 9y ago
  First your not even using my range assuming 60-75 just means 75 and assuming a normal week is only 40. People still get sick and go to dentist appointments etc during crunch. They just don't take 2 week vacations. So, it's closer to 46$ / hour: 30,000 / (52 weeks * 1/2 year * 25 hours) Anyway, if you consider doing this 1 out of 4 years that's 60k extra for a 'hell' year not bad for a 22 year old. And again 30k is for entry level people it can go up quite a bit. Alternatively, many Animators only work crunch they end up working 6 months a year and taking 6 months off.
  - vvanders 9y ago
    > People still get sick and go to dentist appointments etc during crunch. They just don't take 2 week vacations. Yes they do and they catch a ton of shit for doing it. I got tore into one day because I dared to leave at the early hour of 11:00pm having got to the office at 8am that morning. Look, it's obvious that you haven't been on one of these death marches and so you don't really understand what type of a toll that it puts on a team. My example of hourly rate was to point out that it's an awful trade on one side for putting your family through 6 months of hell. If money was really the important factor here then people wouldn't be working for entertainment companies because compensation is worse across the board(from engineers to animators/artists and designers). I work with a ton of ex-gamedev people who've made the transition out and there's literally no comparison. Your $46/hr rate for instance doesn't even crack based Google SWE pay, not including their bonuses. I get that there's a prestige and a sense of accomplishment of working at Disney/your dream studio. That still doesn't excuse them from grinding people into the ground with these insane hours.
    - Retric 9y ago
      This is not the pay of Google SWE, these are Animators that start at far lower base salaries. Some people get 100+k bonuses for doing crunch, it's really relative to salary. Look I have done the whole you work sleep or eat and nothing else for peanuts. That does not mean everyone who works 50+ hour weeks is getting shafted. As to family obligations, not everyone is in that boat. Sure, working insane hours may not seem like a great way to spend your early 20's, but it's also not required that everyone do this. You can make a solid living without pulling crunch time, but it's reasonable for the option to exist. Really, step outside your bubble. Some people working 80 hour weeks pull in a few million per year, they have options and still chose that lifestyle. PS: And nobody is forced to do this, if nothing else quitting is an option.