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> Should we all just leave Facebook? That may sound attractive but it is not a viable solution. It's the only sane response, and has been the only sane respons

by cyphar 9y ago

> Should we all just leave Facebook? That may sound attractive but it is not a viable solution. It's the only sane response, and has been the only sane response, for the past decade. The only counter-argument given by NYT is that in some countries Facebook has a stranglehold. I don't see how that's relevant to people who don't live in those countries. As for organisers of political groups exclusively using Facebook (which is just a terrifying idea for a number of reasons), just pull a Stallman and email them explaining the problem with Facebook and ask if there's another way of staying abreast of the group. You can't fix the problem if you don't even try. By not exercising your ability to protest against systemic and deep-seated abuse of user privacy, you're just making the world worse for the people who don't have that option currently (because it just tightens their stranglehold).

gt_ 9y ago
“Protest” by way of market choice is such a tired fallacy. It’s really amazing so many HN readers are so ready to take such outdated philosophy to the grave.
- cyphar 9y ago
  I am in very strongly favour of GDPR and other similar regulations. I just also think that enabling giants like Facebook to abuse you by admitting that you are unable to function without them is a bad strategy. Diversify if you can, and regulate to protect those who cannot. Nobody said you cannot approach something like this on more than one front.
  - Pokepokalypse 9y ago
    My (individual) approach has been to try to carefully curate my content where it's associated with my Real Name: FB and LinkedIn. LI especially - I think everybody does this. I am absolutely not the person I portray on FB. Co workers. People I know, they're all pretty aware of this. It is an extra level of intimacy in my personal relationships that I allow them to know the real me. Other social networks, where I can use sock puppets - I get out my frustrations by talking about things I would never talk about on FB. In this way, I maximize the usefulness of these tools, and I minimize my usefulness as a tool for them.
- castle-bravo 9y ago
  “We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change." - Mahatma Gandhi
Chardok 9y ago
It seems incredibly bizarre to me that the author says that. She lists all the privacy and user trust violations, future social health concerns, but then says leaving Facebook isn't viable? I have little faith in the US government regulating Facebook's privacy and data mining and even less faith that Facebook would take any action on behalf of its users privacy. Leaving Facebook is the only viable solution.
- freehunter 9y ago
  "Leaving" Facebook is close to impossible. They track you and keep a profile on you no matter what. Other than that, there's no competitor to Facebook that exists in the same market. My favorite stores and restaurants downtown have events and sales and information that is only on Facebook. Saying "just quit Facebook" is like saying "just stop making phone calls" or "just get rid of your mailbox" or "just stop reading emails". Entirely possible, sure. But depending on your life situation, you might be giving up more than you're getting back. Like it or not, for some people there are things on Facebook that are only on Facebook, can only exist on Facebook, and have only been enabled by Facebook. Anything else can replace it, but currently nothing like that even remotely exists.
  - jakewins 9y ago
    > They track you and keep a profile on you no matter what. This is only true because the voting US public believes it to be true. Meanwhile, the EU simply wrote a law against it. Now any EU citizen can simply withhold consent, and if FB continues to process datasets with their PII they will be brought to court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Single_set_of_rules_and_one-stop_shop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
    - freehunter 9y ago
      >This is only true because the voting US public believes it to be true. It's true because it's true. Full stop. You may argue that there are ways to stop it, and sure there are. Like you said, the EU did it, and it's a great law. But GDPR doesn't make it less true in areas not impacted by GDPR, which is everywhere because it doesn't go into effect until May. I didn't say "there's no way to stop it", which is a statement that is only true because the voting US public believes it to be true. I said "they track you and keep a profile on you no matter what", which is true because it's exactly true. Not believing it to be true won't make it less true.

by cyphar 9y ago

gt_ 9y ago

“Protest” by way of market choice is such a tired fallacy. It’s really amazing so many HN readers are so ready to take such outdated philosophy to the grave.

cyphar 9y ago
I am in very strongly favour of GDPR and other similar regulations. I just also think that enabling giants like Facebook to abuse you by admitting that you are unable to function without them is a bad strategy. Diversify if you can, and regulate to protect those who cannot. Nobody said you cannot approach something like this on more than one front.
- Pokepokalypse 9y ago
  My (individual) approach has been to try to carefully curate my content where it's associated with my Real Name: FB and LinkedIn. LI especially - I think everybody does this. I am absolutely not the person I portray on FB. Co workers. People I know, they're all pretty aware of this. It is an extra level of intimacy in my personal relationships that I allow them to know the real me. Other social networks, where I can use sock puppets - I get out my frustrations by talking about things I would never talk about on FB. In this way, I maximize the usefulness of these tools, and I minimize my usefulness as a tool for them.
castle-bravo 9y ago
“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change." - Mahatma Gandhi

Chardok 9y ago

It seems incredibly bizarre to me that the author says that. She lists all the privacy and user trust violations, future social health concerns, but then says leaving Facebook isn't viable? I have little faith in the US government regulating Facebook's privacy and data mining and even less faith that Facebook would take any action on behalf of its users privacy. Leaving Facebook is the only viable solution.

freehunter 9y ago
"Leaving" Facebook is close to impossible. They track you and keep a profile on you no matter what. Other than that, there's no competitor to Facebook that exists in the same market. My favorite stores and restaurants downtown have events and sales and information that is only on Facebook. Saying "just quit Facebook" is like saying "just stop making phone calls" or "just get rid of your mailbox" or "just stop reading emails". Entirely possible, sure. But depending on your life situation, you might be giving up more than you're getting back. Like it or not, for some people there are things on Facebook that are only on Facebook, can only exist on Facebook, and have only been enabled by Facebook. Anything else can replace it, but currently nothing like that even remotely exists.
- jakewins 9y ago
  > They track you and keep a profile on you no matter what. This is only true because the voting US public believes it to be true. Meanwhile, the EU simply wrote a law against it. Now any EU citizen can simply withhold consent, and if FB continues to process datasets with their PII they will be brought to court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Single_set_of_rules_and_one-stop_shop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
  - freehunter 9y ago
    >This is only true because the voting US public believes it to be true. It's true because it's true. Full stop. You may argue that there are ways to stop it, and sure there are. Like you said, the EU did it, and it's a great law. But GDPR doesn't make it less true in areas not impacted by GDPR, which is everywhere because it doesn't go into effect until May. I didn't say "there's no way to stop it", which is a statement that is only true because the voting US public believes it to be true. I said "they track you and keep a profile on you no matter what", which is true because it's exactly true. Not believing it to be true won't make it less true.