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With Sub-saharan Africa’s population alone projected to rise by 3.5 billion to over 4.5 billion by the end of the century I share your concern. Europe and North

With Sub-saharan Africa’s population alone projected to rise by 3.5 billion to over 4.5 billion by the end of the century I share your concern. Europe and North American need to begin planning now for dealing with the migrant crisis which is just now in its very earliest stages. The environmental impact in Africa would otherwise be deviatating. I have to expect upwards of a billion people from this region will need to migrate to Europe and probably an even higher number to the Americas.

FranzFerdiNaN 9y ago
America and Europe will sooner turn to fascism (which is already happening in a lot of nations) as a way to keep it's borders closed than allow a billion people into their nations. I fully expect a closed-off Europe with a new Iron Curtain within a few decades. And Trump's wall will also have been built by then.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > fascism You have a specific definition of fascism in mind? Because closing one's frontiers is not really the only variable to look at it.
- lucozade 9y ago
  I appreciate that no-one uses fascism to mean fascism anymore but it's not clear what you're using the term to mean. Do you mean anti-immigration?
  - vog 9y ago
    [deleted]
    - kbutler 9y ago
      Definition of fascism 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control early instances of army fascism and brutality —J. W. Aldridge
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
  - ataturk 9y ago
    Yes, you see it is fascism to want to protect your nice place from people who have destroyed theirs and want to migrate to yours to destroy it, too. And if you're white, all the better since they simply want you dead. Don't believe me yet? Look at South Africa right now.
- spunker540 9y ago
  Are closed borders and fascism synonymous? Because the US has had closed borders and limits on immigration for over a century now.
  - LandR 9y ago
    I think fascist nowadays is used to put down someone that has an opionion different to you. It's kinda weakening the term IMO.
    - soundwave106 9y ago
      To be fair, I have seen the word "neo-fascist" or "post-fascist" applied to some of the various recent Western nativist movements due to some of the philosophical similarities (the nativism, nationalism, and populism, along with xenophobia / racism in some sectors of the movements, and the desire for strongmen leadership). The big difference typically being that most of today's nativist right wing parties tend to work within the democratic systems instead of advocating takeover of government; they typically don't advocate authoritarian states and economies; and most are typically less interested in expansion via military conquest. Even this is a contested word at best; while some sources advocate this definition (eg, Encyclopedia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/neofascism https://www.britannica.com/topic/neofascism) other sources do not like to apply the label unless there is an explicit strong state element. (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3768/5685c703892b8f734d34ac958aa09afec4e9.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3768/5685c703892b8f734d34ac...)
      - InitialLastName 9y ago
        >The big difference typically being that most of today's nativist right wing parties tend to work within the democratic systems instead of advocating takeover of government Both the Nazis and the Italian fascists worked within their respective democratic systems in the beginning.
        soundwave106 9y ago
- melling 9y ago
  Why do a billion people need to emigrate? The solution is for the rest of the world to become richer. https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/21/bill-gates-they-will-be-no-poor-countries-by-2035.html https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/21/bill-gates-they-will-be-no-p...
throwawaymanbot 9y ago
well tosser, my aptly named friend, what has this got to do with the white rhino? Getting your Far-right propaganda in?
lukev 9y ago
I don't understand why to you, population rise implies migration. Africa (currently) has a lower population density than Europe or Asia. We know people can sustainably live at much higher densities than Africans currently do. The drivers behind migration are global inequality and conflict. If you want to reduce migration, start there. Isolationism and closed borders will only ultimately lead to more humanitarian crises, and more migration pressure.
- bilbo0s 9y ago
  True. Even a place like Congo is, geographically, the size of Western Europe, with about 1/6th the population. Over population isn't really an issue in sub-saharan africa, conflict is.
- VLM 9y ago
  Can't grow enough food at current cultural level, and improving the cultural level is seen as imperialism. Poverty to the point of famine is permanent in Africa.
  - jlg23 9y ago
    The creation of educational institutions and accessible healthcare is part of probably every investment deal in large parts if Africa. The question seems to be wether those deals are crafted with both parties on eye level or wether they are imposed by one party.
- craftyguy 9y ago
  > We know people can sustainably live at much higher densities than Africans currently do. Really? What are some places where people live sustainably at higher densities and at the same scale? 3 people sharing a sustainable farm doesn't count. You also have to account for the cities, which consume vastly more resources and produce vastly more waste.
  - nsp 9y ago
    Cities are almost always wildly more efficient on a per capita basis than rural regions due to economies of scale.
robbick 9y ago
The UN would suggest your numbers are correct but for Africa as a whole not just Sub-saharan africa https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/WPP2017_KeyFindings.pdf https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/WPP2017_KeyFi...

FranzFerdiNaN 9y ago

America and Europe will sooner turn to fascism (which is already happening in a lot of nations) as a way to keep it's borders closed than allow a billion people into their nations. I fully expect a closed-off Europe with a new Iron Curtain within a few decades. And Trump's wall will also have been built by then.

ekianjo 9y ago
> fascism You have a specific definition of fascism in mind? Because closing one's frontiers is not really the only variable to look at it.
lucozade 9y ago
I appreciate that no-one uses fascism to mean fascism anymore but it's not clear what you're using the term to mean. Do you mean anti-immigration?
- vog 9y ago
  [deleted]
  - kbutler 9y ago
    Definition of fascism 1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition 2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control early instances of army fascism and brutality —J. W. Aldridge
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- ataturk 9y ago
  Yes, you see it is fascism to want to protect your nice place from people who have destroyed theirs and want to migrate to yours to destroy it, too. And if you're white, all the better since they simply want you dead. Don't believe me yet? Look at South Africa right now.
spunker540 9y ago
Are closed borders and fascism synonymous? Because the US has had closed borders and limits on immigration for over a century now.
- LandR 9y ago
  I think fascist nowadays is used to put down someone that has an opionion different to you. It's kinda weakening the term IMO.
  - soundwave106 9y ago
    To be fair, I have seen the word "neo-fascist" or "post-fascist" applied to some of the various recent Western nativist movements due to some of the philosophical similarities (the nativism, nationalism, and populism, along with xenophobia / racism in some sectors of the movements, and the desire for strongmen leadership). The big difference typically being that most of today's nativist right wing parties tend to work within the democratic systems instead of advocating takeover of government; they typically don't advocate authoritarian states and economies; and most are typically less interested in expansion via military conquest. Even this is a contested word at best; while some sources advocate this definition (eg, Encyclopedia Britannica: https://www.britannica.com/topic/neofascism https://www.britannica.com/topic/neofascism) other sources do not like to apply the label unless there is an explicit strong state element. (https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3768/5685c703892b8f734d34ac958aa09afec4e9.pdf https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3768/5685c703892b8f734d34ac...)
    - InitialLastName 9y ago
      >The big difference typically being that most of today's nativist right wing parties tend to work within the democratic systems instead of advocating takeover of government Both the Nazis and the Italian fascists worked within their respective democratic systems in the beginning.
      - soundwave106 9y ago
melling 9y ago
Why do a billion people need to emigrate? The solution is for the rest of the world to become richer. https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/21/bill-gates-they-will-be-no-poor-countries-by-2035.html https://www.cnbc.com/2014/01/21/bill-gates-they-will-be-no-p...

throwawaymanbot 9y ago

well tosser, my aptly named friend, what has this got to do with the white rhino? Getting your Far-right propaganda in?

lukev 9y ago

I don't understand why to you, population rise implies migration. Africa (currently) has a lower population density than Europe or Asia. We know people can sustainably live at much higher densities than Africans currently do. The drivers behind migration are global inequality and conflict. If you want to reduce migration, start there. Isolationism and closed borders will only ultimately lead to more humanitarian crises, and more migration pressure.

bilbo0s 9y ago
True. Even a place like Congo is, geographically, the size of Western Europe, with about 1/6th the population. Over population isn't really an issue in sub-saharan africa, conflict is.
VLM 9y ago
Can't grow enough food at current cultural level, and improving the cultural level is seen as imperialism. Poverty to the point of famine is permanent in Africa.
- jlg23 9y ago
  The creation of educational institutions and accessible healthcare is part of probably every investment deal in large parts if Africa. The question seems to be wether those deals are crafted with both parties on eye level or wether they are imposed by one party.
craftyguy 9y ago
> We know people can sustainably live at much higher densities than Africans currently do. Really? What are some places where people live sustainably at higher densities and at the same scale? 3 people sharing a sustainable farm doesn't count. You also have to account for the cities, which consume vastly more resources and produce vastly more waste.
- nsp 9y ago
  Cities are almost always wildly more efficient on a per capita basis than rural regions due to economies of scale.

robbick 9y ago

The UN would suggest your numbers are correct but for Africa as a whole not just Sub-saharan africa https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/WPP2017_KeyFindings.pdf https://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Publications/Files/WPP2017_KeyFi...