4 ms·

Most people are not Linux fanatics like you. 99.9% of people do not care to use Windows as long as it works.

swebs 9y ago
According to the Stack Overflow developer survey, the percent of developers using Windows dropped below 50%. Nobody actually likes using Windows (except for a few Stockholm syndrome sufferers and zealots who drink the MSDN kool-aid), it's just that people are forced to use it due to third-party application support like video games. It seems like every week there's a new article on how Windows 10 is shit for users, whether it's spying on them with telemetry, serving unwanted ads, or reseting user settings after forced updates. Windows is such an anti-brand that they couldn't even get customers to buy a Windows phone after a $500 million advertising campaign. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-developers-primary-operating-systems https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-de...
- romanovcode 9y ago
  > the percent of developers using Windows dropped below 50%. Yeah, not sure how is this relevant. Developers are not your average CoD, LoL, WoW etc.. players. I'm not trying to defend anything as I don't even use Windows myself, it's just that from a business point of view making sure DX and "gaming" in general is locked to Windows makes absolutely 100% sense as again - most gamers do not care if they have to use Windows or not, they just want to play games.
  - headsoup 9y ago
    This is exactly the problem. Gamers are paying for Windows, just to play games, because the free options aren't usable, because of DX. They're not choosing Windows because it does X or Y better or because it's a consciously preferred choice, they're choosing it because it's the option they get by default and because it keeps being reinforced through support of proprietary systems like DX. Though only anecdotes, I sure do see a lot of comments around people willing to support/use Linux if not for lack of games/particular apps. As you state, gamers don't care what OS they use as long as it works. And well, Linux is free and works, it's just not well enough supported because of the chicken and egg of no market size vs no products available so no market size. I.e. if AAA games were developed with full Linux support, gamers wouldn't care if you gave them Linux as default instead, would they?
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Sorry to disappoint you, but as developer with Stockholm syndrome that left Linux back for Visual Studio, C++ and .NET. Also former IGDA member and attendee of a few GDC conferences, game developers only care about shipping games and their IP. AAA studios don't care 1 second about APIs to make a better world. Adding a new rendering backend to a games engine is a trivial task, when compared to the pile of features a game engine needs to support. Also most Windows developers don't care about Stack Overflow surveys.
  - shmerl 9y ago
    > Adding a new rendering backend to a games engine is a trivial task You keep saying this, but it remains false. If it would have been so trivial, studios wouldn't have hard time adding such backends and wouldn't need to hire third party porting experts when they decide to do it. You can see how long it takes major engines like Unreal to make a fully functional backend (since features added to such engines are publicly communicated). It's very clear it's not trivial at all. And MS and Co. obviously do all they can to keep this difficult, that's the main idea of their lock-in which they designed to tax developers with. What's bad though, is your justification of this practice.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      And you keep not understanding how game's industry works. Make yourself an IGDA member, attend GDC, go to Independent Games Festival, network with people there and see how many would actually share your opinion.
      - shmerl 9y ago
        Facts speak for themselves. Your "how it works" can't argue with reality. It took Unreal more than a year to add Vulkan backend. And the work isn't even fully complete: https://trello.com/c/lzLwtb5P/124-vulkan-for-pc-and-linux https://trello.com/c/lzLwtb5P/124-vulkan-for-pc-and-linux So claim that it's trivial is fallacy. It's surely doable, but it's a substantial effort.

According to the Stack Overflow developer survey, the percent of developers using Windows dropped below 50%. Nobody actually likes using Windows (except for a few Stockholm syndrome sufferers and zealots who drink the MSDN kool-aid), it's just that people are forced to use it due to third-party application support like video games. It seems like every week there's a new article on how Windows 10 is shit for users, whether it's spying on them with telemetry, serving unwanted ads, or reseting user settings after forced updates. Windows is such an anti-brand that they couldn't even get customers to buy a Windows phone after a $500 million advertising campaign. https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-developers-primary-operating-systems https://insights.stackoverflow.com/survey/2018#technology-de...

romanovcode 9y ago
> the percent of developers using Windows dropped below 50%. Yeah, not sure how is this relevant. Developers are not your average CoD, LoL, WoW etc.. players. I'm not trying to defend anything as I don't even use Windows myself, it's just that from a business point of view making sure DX and "gaming" in general is locked to Windows makes absolutely 100% sense as again - most gamers do not care if they have to use Windows or not, they just want to play games.
- headsoup 9y ago
  This is exactly the problem. Gamers are paying for Windows, just to play games, because the free options aren't usable, because of DX. They're not choosing Windows because it does X or Y better or because it's a consciously preferred choice, they're choosing it because it's the option they get by default and because it keeps being reinforced through support of proprietary systems like DX. Though only anecdotes, I sure do see a lot of comments around people willing to support/use Linux if not for lack of games/particular apps. As you state, gamers don't care what OS they use as long as it works. And well, Linux is free and works, it's just not well enough supported because of the chicken and egg of no market size vs no products available so no market size. I.e. if AAA games were developed with full Linux support, gamers wouldn't care if you gave them Linux as default instead, would they?
pjmlp 9y ago
Sorry to disappoint you, but as developer with Stockholm syndrome that left Linux back for Visual Studio, C++ and .NET. Also former IGDA member and attendee of a few GDC conferences, game developers only care about shipping games and their IP. AAA studios don't care 1 second about APIs to make a better world. Adding a new rendering backend to a games engine is a trivial task, when compared to the pile of features a game engine needs to support. Also most Windows developers don't care about Stack Overflow surveys.
- shmerl 9y ago
  > Adding a new rendering backend to a games engine is a trivial task You keep saying this, but it remains false. If it would have been so trivial, studios wouldn't have hard time adding such backends and wouldn't need to hire third party porting experts when they decide to do it. You can see how long it takes major engines like Unreal to make a fully functional backend (since features added to such engines are publicly communicated). It's very clear it's not trivial at all. And MS and Co. obviously do all they can to keep this difficult, that's the main idea of their lock-in which they designed to tax developers with. What's bad though, is your justification of this practice.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    And you keep not understanding how game's industry works. Make yourself an IGDA member, attend GDC, go to Independent Games Festival, network with people there and see how many would actually share your opinion.
    - shmerl 9y ago
      Facts speak for themselves. Your "how it works" can't argue with reality. It took Unreal more than a year to add Vulkan backend. And the work isn't even fully complete: https://trello.com/c/lzLwtb5P/124-vulkan-for-pc-and-linux https://trello.com/c/lzLwtb5P/124-vulkan-for-pc-and-linux So claim that it's trivial is fallacy. It's surely doable, but it's a substantial effort.