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Maybe we should revisit our immigration policy that punishes China for having "too many" immigrants to the US and also our University policies which racially di

Maybe we should revisit our immigration policy that punishes China for having "too many" immigrants to the US and also our University policies which racially discriminate against the Chinese for being over-represented. If this trade/economic war is going to keep heating up, we might as well try to steal as many of their best and brightest as possible.

Retric 9y ago
I do think we get their best and brightest. Gaming credentials is an art form in China and can't be taken at face value.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  East Asians have some of the best outcomes of any demographic: higher income, more educated, lower criminality, lower divorce rate, etc. In a country that is arguably designed to maximally benefit whites, they are beating white people at basically everything. This goes far beyond gaming credentials, it's real world outcomes. We could stand to lower our bar with them a little and still get ahead.
  - _emacsomancer_ 9y ago
    Though edged out (in the US) by South Asians, I believe.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      I'm only [something]-ist with China because we're in a trade war with them. Let's go out of our way to make sure we're welcoming as many of the best Chinese as possible. But generally speaking, I'm happy to open the door to anyone who is likely going to up our averages.
  - bruceb 9y ago
    or you could say we are for the most part only taking in a certain segment of the population from these countries. Educated and already middle class or higher. You are not comparing apples to apples.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Do you suppose we're selecting East Asian immigrants in a special way compared to other regions?
      - bruceb 9y ago
        One need not suppose anything. Look who has a majority of the H1-B visas or who comes here for higher education. Those who are not educated from East Asia can't easily come to the US illegally as those who can cross overland (Mexico and central America) can. Poor Chinese villagers are not boating to America.
        Consultant32452 9y ago
        How is that significantly different from Western Europe? Or the Middle East? Or Sub-Saharan Africa? Are the poorest of the poor there making it here? Why are East Asians over-represented in higher education or H1-Bs compared to other places?
        Bartweiss 9y ago
        Two thoughts, to begin. First, much of East Asia has extremely demanding placement tests for elite high schools (and sometimes lower schools). You might reasonably say that we're only taking students from good high schools around the world, but that's a comment about school quality, not students. As people often point out, Harvard dropouts are almost as successful as Harvard grads - merely getting in represents a powerful filter. So it's plausible that we're taking rich/educated elites worldwide, but in East Asia we've got a talent/skill filter comparable to college admissions being applied in advance. Second, your point: there's a non-trivial penalty for being a Chinese applicant to a US college, and it's not particularly obvious what impact that has. I suppose it could be that the harsher requirements for acceptance are driving the difference, and we don't have any real evidence on how responsive outcomes are to changing that restriction. (Is there a good breakdown of outcomes for a given group by visa type? That might show whether nation-specific admission rules on some visa types are changing outcomes.) (The third thought, of course, is "it's a huge multifactorial mess and there's probably not enough data to trust any conclusion we come to".)

Retric 9y ago

I do think we get their best and brightest. Gaming credentials is an art form in China and can't be taken at face value.

Consultant32452 9y ago
East Asians have some of the best outcomes of any demographic: higher income, more educated, lower criminality, lower divorce rate, etc. In a country that is arguably designed to maximally benefit whites, they are beating white people at basically everything. This goes far beyond gaming credentials, it's real world outcomes. We could stand to lower our bar with them a little and still get ahead.
- _emacsomancer_ 9y ago
  Though edged out (in the US) by South Asians, I believe.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    I'm only [something]-ist with China because we're in a trade war with them. Let's go out of our way to make sure we're welcoming as many of the best Chinese as possible. But generally speaking, I'm happy to open the door to anyone who is likely going to up our averages.
- bruceb 9y ago
  or you could say we are for the most part only taking in a certain segment of the population from these countries. Educated and already middle class or higher. You are not comparing apples to apples.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Do you suppose we're selecting East Asian immigrants in a special way compared to other regions?
    - bruceb 9y ago
      One need not suppose anything. Look who has a majority of the H1-B visas or who comes here for higher education. Those who are not educated from East Asia can't easily come to the US illegally as those who can cross overland (Mexico and central America) can. Poor Chinese villagers are not boating to America.
      - Consultant32452 9y ago
        How is that significantly different from Western Europe? Or the Middle East? Or Sub-Saharan Africa? Are the poorest of the poor there making it here? Why are East Asians over-represented in higher education or H1-Bs compared to other places?
        Bartweiss 9y ago
        Two thoughts, to begin. First, much of East Asia has extremely demanding placement tests for elite high schools (and sometimes lower schools). You might reasonably say that we're only taking students from good high schools around the world, but that's a comment about school quality, not students. As people often point out, Harvard dropouts are almost as successful as Harvard grads - merely getting in represents a powerful filter. So it's plausible that we're taking rich/educated elites worldwide, but in East Asia we've got a talent/skill filter comparable to college admissions being applied in advance. Second, your point: there's a non-trivial penalty for being a Chinese applicant to a US college, and it's not particularly obvious what impact that has. I suppose it could be that the harsher requirements for acceptance are driving the difference, and we don't have any real evidence on how responsive outcomes are to changing that restriction. (Is there a good breakdown of outcomes for a given group by visa type? That might show whether nation-specific admission rules on some visa types are changing outcomes.) (The third thought, of course, is "it's a huge multifactorial mess and there's probably not enough data to trust any conclusion we come to".)