4 ms·

Eh, two things: - Russia has been into poisoning since the days of Stalin. Some of the poisons (Polonium) would be very hard for anybody else to get hold of, l

Eh, two things: - Russia has been into poisoning since the days of Stalin. Some of the poisons (Polonium) would be very hard for anybody else to get hold of, let alone use. - London is a city where a lot of wealthy Russian ex-pats live. Being skeptical of everything is just as corrosive to realism as being overly credulous. Just look at Alex Jones.

coldtea 9y ago
>- Russia has been into poisoning since the days of Stalin. Unlike say the US, France, or Israel? E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fidel_Castro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fide... >Some of the poisons (Polonium) would be very hard for anybody else to get hold of, let alone use. But trivial for any false flag state actor. >- London is a city where a lot of wealthy Russian ex-pats live. Yes, but how is this relevant to whether Russia as a state (that is, not them) is involved? Unless they are those giving the command, or the targets... >Being skeptical of everything is just as corrosive to realism as being overly credulous. Just look at Alex Jones. Sure, but this is basic due diligence. I'm not going to take the assurances of this of that state agency - without public proof besides what their "experts" say-- at face value, like, ever.
- wmeredith 9y ago
  What would this proof look like to someone with your perspective? I’m genuinely curious what they could provide that you couldn’t/wouldn’t hand wave away as fake news.
  - londons_explore 9y ago
    I'd like to see samples of the poison handed to Russia and some other uninvolved third party. Various kinds of isotope analysis can be done to identify where a material was originally sourced, and the results are quite hard to fake.
- pasabagi 9y ago
  I think you're misunderstanding how propaganda works. Certainly, states lie, and certainly, states commit false flag actions. However, it's much more common that they frame narratives or manipulate news cycles to get their ideas across. In a case like this, where they have no reason to lie, they're almost certainly telling the truth. It's also far more common that they provoke and propogate skepticism and conspiracy theories, so citizens don't react on information they obtain, since they are skeptical of everything. The ideal mindset for a propagandaist is not certainty, but rather universal cynicism. Elections are rigged? Maybe. Extra-judicial executions? Sounds probable. Aliens? Who knows? In a country where the basic values of truth and honesty are undermined, the state will always win - because it has the resources to drown out opposing narratives.

coldtea 9y ago

>- Russia has been into poisoning since the days of Stalin. Unlike say the US, France, or Israel? E.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fidel_Castro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Fide... >Some of the poisons (Polonium) would be very hard for anybody else to get hold of, let alone use. But trivial for any false flag state actor. >- London is a city where a lot of wealthy Russian ex-pats live. Yes, but how is this relevant to whether Russia as a state (that is, not them) is involved? Unless they are those giving the command, or the targets... >Being skeptical of everything is just as corrosive to realism as being overly credulous. Just look at Alex Jones. Sure, but this is basic due diligence. I'm not going to take the assurances of this of that state agency - without public proof besides what their "experts" say-- at face value, like, ever.

wmeredith 9y ago
What would this proof look like to someone with your perspective? I’m genuinely curious what they could provide that you couldn’t/wouldn’t hand wave away as fake news.
- londons_explore 9y ago
  I'd like to see samples of the poison handed to Russia and some other uninvolved third party. Various kinds of isotope analysis can be done to identify where a material was originally sourced, and the results are quite hard to fake.
pasabagi 9y ago
I think you're misunderstanding how propaganda works. Certainly, states lie, and certainly, states commit false flag actions. However, it's much more common that they frame narratives or manipulate news cycles to get their ideas across. In a case like this, where they have no reason to lie, they're almost certainly telling the truth. It's also far more common that they provoke and propogate skepticism and conspiracy theories, so citizens don't react on information they obtain, since they are skeptical of everything. The ideal mindset for a propagandaist is not certainty, but rather universal cynicism. Elections are rigged? Maybe. Extra-judicial executions? Sounds probable. Aliens? Who knows? In a country where the basic values of truth and honesty are undermined, the state will always win - because it has the resources to drown out opposing narratives.