4 ms·

This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest informatio

by fny 9y ago

This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to information from people after they chose to download his app. His app, “thisisyourdigitallife,” offered a personality prediction, and billed itself on Facebook as “a research app used by psychologists.” [0] Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent.[1] He also continued to revel in his company's ability to manipulate after the election.[2] [0]: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-analytica/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-an... [1]: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc?t=1m45s https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc?t=1m45s [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG5ps5KdDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG5ps5KdDo

darawk 9y ago
> This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: Yes, but lots of apps are deceptive about what they do with data. > Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc That's called advertising. Obama's campaign did the same thing (and so did every other modern political campaign). > The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent. That one is actually somewhat significant, although it's not clear that lying is exactly a novelty in politics.
mattmcknight 9y ago
The application is different, but not 'completely different". The use of friend lists harvested from an application to target ads was not known by users. Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". I would agree with you that the purpose of the application was deceptive, but don't most applications that use Facebook logins attempt to monetize this data?
- bostik 9y ago
  > Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". Please, just call it what it is: propaganda. Whether you're selling a product, a service or an idea, you're still doing your best to manipulate your target audience. The techniques are the same. And I use the term in a purely clinical sense: manipulation at scale, the subtler the better.
  - darawk 9y ago
    > Please, just call it what it is: propaganda. All political campaigns are propaganda, though.
- fny 9y ago
  This is political weaponization of data and information for the purpose of putting an individual in power. It's not me trying to sell you a pug plushie or get you to use my accounting software. It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the purpose of winning an election. This should not be tolerated of anyone, particularly of our own head of state.
  - StanislavPetrov 9y ago
    The problem here, as is the root of almost all the problems we face in society isn't Cambridge Analytica. The problem is people lack basic critical thinking skills and the capacity to make good decisions. > It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. Nobody with any knowledge of history or good sense trusts any government institution. >It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the purpose of winning an election. This would require having a civil society filled with civil discourse to start out with, which we didn't (and don't) have. The simple, irrefutable truth is that governments and those in other centers of power have been using propaganda to control feeble minds and society at large since Woodrow Wilson founded the first official state-run propaganda machine (the CPI) over a hundred years ago. Everyone is trying to find a "reason" that people rejected "traditional American institutions" and the establishment candidate (Hillary Clinton) in favor of a classless, boorish carnival barker in Donald Trump. They point to the evil Russians, or the dastardly villains at Cambridge Analytics, because they don't want to accept that "traditional American institutions" have been utter garbage for decades. They don't want to accept that many, many Americans are simply rejecting the status quo. Americans may not be smart or informed enough to know exactly what is wrong with "the system", but they know its horribly broken, it doesn't work in their interests, and many of them are reflexively rejecting that system. They aren't rejecting it because of the Russians, or because of some Twitter trolls, or some facebook ads - they are rejecting it because they have seen their standards of living plummet over the last few decades while those at the upper echelon of society have gotten fabulously wealthy. They are rejecting it because so many people are one illness or accident or lost job away from being homeless. They are rejecting it because they have seen (and continue to see) a race to the bottom for working people while the "elites" push for open borders and a massive influx of cheap labor that will make their lives even more difficult. So keep on crying about the evil Trump and the dastardly Russians, and whatever other phantoms you invent to explain away the growing national discontent while keeping your head in the sand about the real problems we have.
sbg123 9y ago
What do you think all the tens of thousands of free android apps in play store are doing, if not deliberately harvesting data for any means of profit?

by fny 9y ago

darawk 9y ago

> This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: Yes, but lots of apps are deceptive about what they do with data. > Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc That's called advertising. Obama's campaign did the same thing (and so did every other modern political campaign). > The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent. That one is actually somewhat significant, although it's not clear that lying is exactly a novelty in politics.

mattmcknight 9y ago

The application is different, but not 'completely different". The use of friend lists harvested from an application to target ads was not known by users. Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". I would agree with you that the purpose of the application was deceptive, but don't most applications that use Facebook logins attempt to monetize this data?

bostik 9y ago
> Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". Please, just call it what it is: propaganda. Whether you're selling a product, a service or an idea, you're still doing your best to manipulate your target audience. The techniques are the same. And I use the term in a purely clinical sense: manipulation at scale, the subtler the better.
- darawk 9y ago
  > Please, just call it what it is: propaganda. All political campaigns are propaganda, though.
fny 9y ago
This is political weaponization of data and information for the purpose of putting an individual in power. It's not me trying to sell you a pug plushie or get you to use my accounting software. It's deliberately lying to seed fear, distrust, division, and hate between citizens. It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the purpose of winning an election. This should not be tolerated of anyone, particularly of our own head of state.
- StanislavPetrov 9y ago
  The problem here, as is the root of almost all the problems we face in society isn't Cambridge Analytica. The problem is people lack basic critical thinking skills and the capacity to make good decisions. > It's deliberate manipulation to create distrust of government institutions. Nobody with any knowledge of history or good sense trusts any government institution. >It's the destruction of civil society and civil discourse for the purpose of winning an election. This would require having a civil society filled with civil discourse to start out with, which we didn't (and don't) have. The simple, irrefutable truth is that governments and those in other centers of power have been using propaganda to control feeble minds and society at large since Woodrow Wilson founded the first official state-run propaganda machine (the CPI) over a hundred years ago. Everyone is trying to find a "reason" that people rejected "traditional American institutions" and the establishment candidate (Hillary Clinton) in favor of a classless, boorish carnival barker in Donald Trump. They point to the evil Russians, or the dastardly villains at Cambridge Analytics, because they don't want to accept that "traditional American institutions" have been utter garbage for decades. They don't want to accept that many, many Americans are simply rejecting the status quo. Americans may not be smart or informed enough to know exactly what is wrong with "the system", but they know its horribly broken, it doesn't work in their interests, and many of them are reflexively rejecting that system. They aren't rejecting it because of the Russians, or because of some Twitter trolls, or some facebook ads - they are rejecting it because they have seen their standards of living plummet over the last few decades while those at the upper echelon of society have gotten fabulously wealthy. They are rejecting it because so many people are one illness or accident or lost job away from being homeless. They are rejecting it because they have seen (and continue to see) a race to the bottom for working people while the "elites" push for open borders and a massive influx of cheap labor that will make their lives even more difficult. So keep on crying about the evil Trump and the dastardly Russians, and whatever other phantoms you invent to explain away the growing national discontent while keeping your head in the sand about the real problems we have.

sbg123 9y ago

What do you think all the tens of thousands of free android apps in play store are doing, if not deliberately harvesting data for any means of profit?