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Is it really that different from the 2012 campaign? "But the Obama team had a solution in place: a Facebook application that will transform the way campaigns a

Is it really that different from the 2012 campaign? "But the Obama team had a solution in place: a Facebook application that will transform the way campaigns are conducted in the future. For supporters, the app appeared to be just another way to digitally connect to the campaign.... That’s because the more than 1 million Obama backers who signed up for the app gave the campaign permission to look at their Facebook friend lists. In an instant, the campaign had a way to see the hidden young voters. Roughly 85% of those without a listed phone number could be found in the uploaded friend lists....in those final weeks of the campaign, the team blitzed the supporters who had signed up for the app with requests to share specific online content with specific friends simply by clicking a button." http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/20/friended-how-the-obama-campaign-connected-with-young-voters/ http://swampland.time.com/2012/11/20/friended-how-the-obama-...

slaunchwise 9y ago
Whataboutism doesn't make it right.
BLanen 9y ago
Yes. >signed up for the app
- mattmcknight 9y ago
  The Cambridge Analytica users also signed up for the app, and also gave up their friend lists. You are correct though in that the nature of the application Cambridge Analytica used was more deceptive as it was not identified as having a political purpose.
vvanders 9y ago
I would argue the difference there was that was an explicitly political app where from what I understand the app that leaked this data wasn't political in any way. Either way it's great to see some light shined on FB, this is exactly the reason I don't use their services.
- mattmcknight 9y ago
  That the app's purpose was disguised is definitely true. I would suggest that there a large number of applications that use Facebook logins are primarily designed to monetize the information gathered from the access that provides. I would also suggest that the users of the Obama campaign application were not aware that the purpose was to gather information on from their friend lists in order to support targeting advertisements at people they couldn't get phone numbers for.
- Clanan 9y ago
  Facebook sure was political, though. From Davidsen: > They came to office in the days following election recruiting & were very candid that they allowed us to do things they wouldn’t have allowed someone else to do because they were on our side.
fny 9y ago
This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to information from people after they chose to download his app. His app, “thisisyourdigitallife,” offered a personality prediction, and billed itself on Facebook as “a research app used by psychologists.” [0] Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent.[1] He also continued to revel in his company's ability to manipulate after the election.[2] [0]: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-analytica/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-an... [1]: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc?t=1m45s https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc?t=1m45s [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG5ps5KdDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG5ps5KdDo
- darawk 9y ago
  > This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: Yes, but lots of apps are deceptive about what they do with data. > Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc That's called advertising. Obama's campaign did the same thing (and so did every other modern political campaign). > The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent. That one is actually somewhat significant, although it's not clear that lying is exactly a novelty in politics.
- mattmcknight 9y ago
  The application is different, but not 'completely different". The use of friend lists harvested from an application to target ads was not known by users. Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". I would agree with you that the purpose of the application was deceptive, but don't most applications that use Facebook logins attempt to monetize this data?
randomname2 9y ago
A former Obama campaign official is claiming that Facebook knowingly allowed them to mine massive amounts of Facebook data — more than they would’ve allowed someone else to do — because they were supportive of the campaign. In a Sunday tweet thread, Carol Davidsen, former director of integration and media analytics for Obama for America, said the 2012 campaign led Facebook to “suck out the whole social graph” and target potential voters. They would then use that data to do things like append their email lists. When Facebook found out what they were doing, they were “surprised,” she said. But she also claimed they didn’t stop them once they found out: https://ijr.com/2018/03/1077083-ex-obama-campaign-director-fb/ https://ijr.com/2018/03/1077083-ex-obama-campaign-director-f...
- gaius 9y ago
  Right. That’s what this boils down to. Facebook was backing Hillary, and their candidate lost. Now they need a scapegoat to deflect the blame for failing to deliver. For the record I was for Bernie.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    I convinced multiple members of my family to vote for Bernie, and then DNC wiped their asses with our votes.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bigiain 9y ago
  It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit - this is _clearly_ un-democratic. <snark>What country is going to come to The US's aid and send in troops to "restore democracy"?
  - mattmcknight 9y ago
    How is ad targeting undemocratic?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
danso 9y ago
Yes, because the Obama backers signed up for an app that was clearly affiliated with the Obama campaign. Were these backers assholes for knowingly wanting to spam their friends with Obama propaganda? Sure, because everyone hates spamming. Cambridge Analytics is accused of using data that was harvested from a quiz app that was purportedly the creation of a Cambridge professor. I think that CA is being accused of something different than just spamming, but part of the overall problem is the subterfuge involved, which is generally a frowned upon thing in U.S. election regulations. For example, it's not shady if Clinton buys up all the ad space during your favorite shows to spread her liberal indoctrination. It is problematic if those commercials run without a "This ad funded by the Hillary Clinton for President campaign" disclaimer.
- karmelapple 9y ago
  It sounds like they are being alleged of lying and not identifying themselves as having been affiliated with either a PAC or a campaign. By doing that, that's breaking the law. Additionally, the CEO has basically admitted - under hidden camera - that they are fine with blackmail and lying. Is blackmail and lying technically illegal? I'm not sure. But if you lie and blackmail as part of a political campaign, but do not let people know you are a political campaign, you have broken the law.
  - danso 9y ago
    I haven’t been reading all the latest CA coverage, but from what I’ve seen from the Guardian’s and Observer’s latest deep dive, there’s an issue of violating UK data privacy laws, since CA is alleged to have been involved in Brexit related campaigns. In these stories, it’s not alleged that Trump’s campaign did anything illegal.
    - useryournoggin 9y ago
      Cambridge Analytica didn't conduct marketing for Brexit campaign groups.
- sheepmullet 9y ago

slaunchwise 9y ago

Whataboutism doesn't make it right.

BLanen 9y ago

Yes. >signed up for the app

mattmcknight 9y ago
The Cambridge Analytica users also signed up for the app, and also gave up their friend lists. You are correct though in that the nature of the application Cambridge Analytica used was more deceptive as it was not identified as having a political purpose.

vvanders 9y ago

I would argue the difference there was that was an explicitly political app where from what I understand the app that leaked this data wasn't political in any way. Either way it's great to see some light shined on FB, this is exactly the reason I don't use their services.

mattmcknight 9y ago
That the app's purpose was disguised is definitely true. I would suggest that there a large number of applications that use Facebook logins are primarily designed to monetize the information gathered from the access that provides. I would also suggest that the users of the Obama campaign application were not aware that the purpose was to gather information on from their friend lists in order to support targeting advertisements at people they couldn't get phone numbers for.
Clanan 9y ago
Facebook sure was political, though. From Davidsen: > They came to office in the days following election recruiting & were very candid that they allowed us to do things they wouldn’t have allowed someone else to do because they were on our side.

fny 9y ago

This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: > Like all app developers, Kogan requested and gained access to information from people after they chose to download his app. His app, “thisisyourdigitallife,” offered a personality prediction, and billed itself on Facebook as “a research app used by psychologists.” [0] Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent.[1] He also continued to revel in his company's ability to manipulate after the election.[2] [0]: https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-analytica/ https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2018/03/suspending-cambridge-an... [1]: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc?t=1m45s https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc?t=1m45s [2]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG5ps5KdDo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bG5ps5KdDo

darawk 9y ago
> This is completely different. Cambridge Analytica deliberately lied and deceived users about the intention of the application they created to harvest information about users: Yes, but lots of apps are deceptive about what they do with data. > Cambridge Analytica is also in the business of using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince users of an outcome. And this isn't something I'm making up, the CEO of Cambridge Analytica peddles this as the potential of his platform: https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc https://youtu.be/n8Dd5aVXLCc That's called advertising. Obama's campaign did the same thing (and so did every other modern political campaign). > The most damning aspect is his naked promotion of misinformation under the newspeak of "Behavioral Communication" where he suggests comparing the effectiveness of using "Private Beach" vs "Sharks Sighted" as a deterrent. That one is actually somewhat significant, although it's not clear that lying is exactly a novelty in politics.
mattmcknight 9y ago
The application is different, but not 'completely different". The use of friend lists harvested from an application to target ads was not known by users. Much of political campaigning, and advertising in general, is exactly as you describe, "using manipulation and psychological techniques to convince". I would agree with you that the purpose of the application was deceptive, but don't most applications that use Facebook logins attempt to monetize this data?

randomname2 9y ago

A former Obama campaign official is claiming that Facebook knowingly allowed them to mine massive amounts of Facebook data — more than they would’ve allowed someone else to do — because they were supportive of the campaign. In a Sunday tweet thread, Carol Davidsen, former director of integration and media analytics for Obama for America, said the 2012 campaign led Facebook to “suck out the whole social graph” and target potential voters. They would then use that data to do things like append their email lists. When Facebook found out what they were doing, they were “surprised,” she said. But she also claimed they didn’t stop them once they found out: https://ijr.com/2018/03/1077083-ex-obama-campaign-director-fb/ https://ijr.com/2018/03/1077083-ex-obama-campaign-director-f...

gaius 9y ago
Right. That’s what this boils down to. Facebook was backing Hillary, and their candidate lost. Now they need a scapegoat to deflect the blame for failing to deliver. For the record I was for Bernie.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  I convinced multiple members of my family to vote for Bernie, and then DNC wiped their asses with our votes.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bigiain 9y ago
It doesn't matter which side of the political fence you sit - this is _clearly_ un-democratic. <snark>What country is going to come to The US's aid and send in troops to "restore democracy"?
- mattmcknight 9y ago
  How is ad targeting undemocratic?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

danso 9y ago

Yes, because the Obama backers signed up for an app that was clearly affiliated with the Obama campaign. Were these backers assholes for knowingly wanting to spam their friends with Obama propaganda? Sure, because everyone hates spamming. Cambridge Analytics is accused of using data that was harvested from a quiz app that was purportedly the creation of a Cambridge professor. I think that CA is being accused of something different than just spamming, but part of the overall problem is the subterfuge involved, which is generally a frowned upon thing in U.S. election regulations. For example, it's not shady if Clinton buys up all the ad space during your favorite shows to spread her liberal indoctrination. It is problematic if those commercials run without a "This ad funded by the Hillary Clinton for President campaign" disclaimer.

karmelapple 9y ago
It sounds like they are being alleged of lying and not identifying themselves as having been affiliated with either a PAC or a campaign. By doing that, that's breaking the law. Additionally, the CEO has basically admitted - under hidden camera - that they are fine with blackmail and lying. Is blackmail and lying technically illegal? I'm not sure. But if you lie and blackmail as part of a political campaign, but do not let people know you are a political campaign, you have broken the law.
- danso 9y ago
  I haven’t been reading all the latest CA coverage, but from what I’ve seen from the Guardian’s and Observer’s latest deep dive, there’s an issue of violating UK data privacy laws, since CA is alleged to have been involved in Brexit related campaigns. In these stories, it’s not alleged that Trump’s campaign did anything illegal.
  - useryournoggin 9y ago
    Cambridge Analytica didn't conduct marketing for Brexit campaign groups.
sheepmullet 9y ago