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The headline is clickbaity. The point isn't that Silicon Valley isn't a major force in tech or that other parts of the US will "beat" it. Rather, it's that you

The headline is clickbaity. The point isn't that Silicon Valley isn't a major force in tech or that other parts of the US will "beat" it. Rather, it's that you can build valuable tech companies outside of it, and that the Midwest in particular is ripe for more tech companies. I know first hand, I'm building my VC-backed (including coastal $) startup in Madison, and we've stayed put. I realized the pressures we felt to move early on were our own insecurities and the bias of tech/investor media (which I've noticed has changed recently, we're not seen as so crazy!) I'm glad we stayed put, especially as we've started to focus on real revenue and scaling, and less on trying to be hot for the purposes of raising a big early round. I feel like the market for engineers around here is becoming an advantage for us, and we're not having to fight the same talent wars as those on the coasts. That matters.

dang 9y ago
We changed the baity title to the less baity subtitle.
- deleted 9y ago
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sidlls 9y ago
Madison has a lower cost of living, but my experience there (working and looking for work), admittedly dated by half a decade, is that the variety and quality of engineering work pales in comparison to that available in bigger hubs. It's mostly very mundane work for one of the many insurers there, maybe Epic, etc. It's also generally very poorly compensated relatively.
- yesimahuman 9y ago
  That’s a slightly ancillary point to mine. Regardless, a lot has changed in the last two years even (and we’ve had to raise salaries to compensate). It has a ways to go but I’d like to think we’re proof of the potential that is there today. (We didn’t even exist 5 years ago anyways!) Also I’d like to think what we’re working on isn’t mundane!
- driverdan 9y ago
  That just means more opportunity to hire people for an interesting, funded startup.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    Not necessarily: the greater portion of talent there are still there because they lack the desire or ability to work at interesting startups, funded or not. Compensation and opportunity abundance both will have to significantly change that.
    - yesimahuman 9y ago
      My experience hiring here right now is that we have more interesting, qualified candidates than we can possibly hire. If we were struggling to fill open positions with great talent I wouldn't be here. Compensation has gone up across the board to remain competitive, which is a good thing. This has changed dramatically in the last few years, especially as remote work has changed the hiring landscape. It's a great time to be an engineer anywhere, including Madison.
seawlf 9y ago
Having just moved to SF from Madison, I have to say that the engineering competence of teams there is disappointing in comparison to the Bay Area. Not only that, but Madison companies really do not pay well at all. You can't expect to keep talent if you aren't paying for it.
- yesimahuman 9y ago
  So far it’s working out and we’re excited about growing here. Our data says we’re competitive on compensation and I’m proud of our retention. I’m very happy about the level of our engineering talent and this team is building a successful product used around the world right here in Madison. I’m sorry you didn’t have a great experience with your last team.
  - electricEmu 9y ago
    I'm glad your happy with your company's engineering output. As an engineer, I would head for Chicago or Minneapolis. Madison doesn't have "the next job". When that time comes, I wouldn't want to uproot my family. I'm glad your rention is stellar. I would expect increased retention due to lack of alternatives. Most companies believe their compensation is competitive. A lot of them are wrong. The Midwest might be a place where companies can skirt those two things fairly easy.
    - yesimahuman 9y ago
      You certainly would be entitled to make that decision, and many do! The point of my original comment was that we have sufficient talent to build and scale tech companies here. It's certainly not going to attract every talented worker (like yourself), but not even the bay area has that going for it anymore. For entrepreneurs thinking of building in the Midwest, you absolutely can. Let's not let that point get lost in a discussion about personal values.
      - chaostheory 9y ago
        > not even the bay area has that going for it anymore. Are there definitive stats on this because I would disagree especially compared to the Midwest?
aphextron 9y ago
>I'm glad we stayed put, especially as we've started to focus on real revenue and scaling, and less on trying to be hot for the purposes of raising a big early round. I feel like the market for engineers around here is becoming an advantage for us, and we're not having to fight the same talent wars as those on the coasts. That matters. Would you say there's any other advantage to your location besides being able to pay people less and having cheaper rent?
- yesimahuman 9y ago
  Your question sounds pretty sarcastic, but yes, I do think we’re able to focus on building a big company and not getting caught up in the high burn, rocket ship or bust game that is dooming a lot of valley companies and resulting in many premature acquisitions (or worse). People think midwesterners think small, but I don’t relate to that.

dang 9y ago

We changed the baity title to the less baity subtitle.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

sidlls 9y ago

Madison has a lower cost of living, but my experience there (working and looking for work), admittedly dated by half a decade, is that the variety and quality of engineering work pales in comparison to that available in bigger hubs. It's mostly very mundane work for one of the many insurers there, maybe Epic, etc. It's also generally very poorly compensated relatively.

yesimahuman 9y ago
That’s a slightly ancillary point to mine. Regardless, a lot has changed in the last two years even (and we’ve had to raise salaries to compensate). It has a ways to go but I’d like to think we’re proof of the potential that is there today. (We didn’t even exist 5 years ago anyways!) Also I’d like to think what we’re working on isn’t mundane!
driverdan 9y ago
That just means more opportunity to hire people for an interesting, funded startup.
- sidlls 9y ago
  Not necessarily: the greater portion of talent there are still there because they lack the desire or ability to work at interesting startups, funded or not. Compensation and opportunity abundance both will have to significantly change that.
  - yesimahuman 9y ago
    My experience hiring here right now is that we have more interesting, qualified candidates than we can possibly hire. If we were struggling to fill open positions with great talent I wouldn't be here. Compensation has gone up across the board to remain competitive, which is a good thing. This has changed dramatically in the last few years, especially as remote work has changed the hiring landscape. It's a great time to be an engineer anywhere, including Madison.

seawlf 9y ago

Having just moved to SF from Madison, I have to say that the engineering competence of teams there is disappointing in comparison to the Bay Area. Not only that, but Madison companies really do not pay well at all. You can't expect to keep talent if you aren't paying for it.

yesimahuman 9y ago
So far it’s working out and we’re excited about growing here. Our data says we’re competitive on compensation and I’m proud of our retention. I’m very happy about the level of our engineering talent and this team is building a successful product used around the world right here in Madison. I’m sorry you didn’t have a great experience with your last team.
- electricEmu 9y ago
  I'm glad your happy with your company's engineering output. As an engineer, I would head for Chicago or Minneapolis. Madison doesn't have "the next job". When that time comes, I wouldn't want to uproot my family. I'm glad your rention is stellar. I would expect increased retention due to lack of alternatives. Most companies believe their compensation is competitive. A lot of them are wrong. The Midwest might be a place where companies can skirt those two things fairly easy.
  - yesimahuman 9y ago
    You certainly would be entitled to make that decision, and many do! The point of my original comment was that we have sufficient talent to build and scale tech companies here. It's certainly not going to attract every talented worker (like yourself), but not even the bay area has that going for it anymore. For entrepreneurs thinking of building in the Midwest, you absolutely can. Let's not let that point get lost in a discussion about personal values.
    - chaostheory 9y ago
      > not even the bay area has that going for it anymore. Are there definitive stats on this because I would disagree especially compared to the Midwest?

aphextron 9y ago

>I'm glad we stayed put, especially as we've started to focus on real revenue and scaling, and less on trying to be hot for the purposes of raising a big early round. I feel like the market for engineers around here is becoming an advantage for us, and we're not having to fight the same talent wars as those on the coasts. That matters. Would you say there's any other advantage to your location besides being able to pay people less and having cheaper rent?

yesimahuman 9y ago
Your question sounds pretty sarcastic, but yes, I do think we’re able to focus on building a big company and not getting caught up in the high burn, rocket ship or bust game that is dooming a lot of valley companies and resulting in many premature acquisitions (or worse). People think midwesterners think small, but I don’t relate to that.