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>If someone calls my bank and convinces customer service they are me, it would be reasonable to say the bank was breached. Not electronically. But breached none

>If someone calls my bank and convinces customer service they are me, it would be reasonable to say the bank was breached. Not electronically. But breached nonetheless. That's a bad analogy. A more appropriate one would be if you called your bank and told them to allow a 3rd party to have access to all of your accounts, then blamed your bank when the 3rd party drained all your accounts. Facebook has no obligation to protect your data from yourself any more than your bank has the obligation to control what you spend your money on.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> A more appropriate one would be if you called your bank and told them to allow a 3rd party to have access to all of your accounts, then blamed your bank when the 3rd party drained all your accounts Better analogy: you call your bank to allow a third party to have access to all your accounts. My account gets drained. Still a breach.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  ... But you previously gave me the ability to manage your accounts, then I gave it to the 3rd party that then drained your account. Still not a breach of the bank, nor a breach of facebook. The app didn't have any "extra" access or anything other than what the person who installed it would have. The app used the information that the person gave it, and that included information on friends that the person had access to. If you were impacted, blame yourself, your friends that you gave information to who gave it to a 3rd party, and/or the company that made the app. All facebook did was make the metaphorical parking lot that you got robbed in. While I agree that there is more they can do here to prevent this kind of thing (like specific and explicit controls on what data an app wants/needs at install time), acting like this is a breach of their information is wrong.
  - bob_theslob646 9y ago
    Just like in real life, if someone slips and falls in the lot, the liability is on the owner of the lot. Owners of parking lots are incentivized to make sure people don't slip and fall or they will get sued.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
runeb 9y ago
Agree with your general statement, but still a bad analogy. You tell your bank to release all your info to third party, then a fourth party learns all your balances. The problem seems to be that people do not realize what it means to agree to information access for a third party, and the question remains weather Facebook is to blame for it being release to a fourth party. So really the problem is that people are not aware of the scope of the information aggregate of their actions on social media and how it is or may be used or abused.
- Klathmon 9y ago
  >the question remains weather Facebook is to blame for it being release to a fourth party. And I personally don't think Facebook should be to blame for it ending up in a fourth party's hands. They gave it to the 3rd party at the request of the user. What that 3rd party does with it should be of no concern to Facebook. If Facebook has to police what users are doing with their own data on other platforms, then strict DRM is going to become a legal necessity. That is what I see when I read comments saying how Facebook should take responsibility here. I agree that people don't seem to grasp what it means when they click the "i agree" button, and that Facebook (and others) should work much harder on getting the user to understand the full extent of what they are doing, as well as greater control over what data is shared and when. But that's not a problem that's easily solvable (or possibly even solvable at all). And calling for Facebook to simply not accept this information (which isn't a possibility, they are a social network, so social data has to exist on their systems), or to not allow users to have control over their own information is the exact opposite of what I and many others have been fighting for for years. If I want to export my information, or give it to a 3rd party, that is my right. And Facebook should have no ability to stop me from doing that. This will lead to people giving their personal information to parties that they do not intend to, but I feel that is a risk worth taking to keep your information yours.
  - pier25 9y ago
    Should you be able to share your data with whomever you wish? Yes, I agree to that. OTOH you and I both know 99.99% of users don't understand what's going on with their data, so the question here is if adult users should be held responsible for something they don't understand and whether Facebook is actually responsible for not informing its users clearly of what was going on. Do you think it would have made a difference if Facebook had used a red blinking message alerting users before sharing their personal data with a third party? I think so. So yeah, the responsibility is not 100% on Facebook's users.
JoshMnem 9y ago
Users don't understand how data works and what can be done with it, so it isn't reasonable to expect that users will know how to protect themselves. The entire system is designed to hide what is being done to users from the users.
neuromantik8086 9y ago
How about your parents make you a joint account holder on their bank accounts to help them with their finances as they age, and then you allow a fraud to drain their account because you're ethically compromised?
xg15 9y ago
> That's a bad analogy. A more appropriate one would be if you called your bank and told them to allow a 3rd party to have access to all of your accounts, then blamed your bank when the 3rd party drained all your accounts. ...after the bank provided the infrastructure to give full control to a 3rd party, frequently encouraged me to do it and gave me the impression that I delegated access only for a specific task and a limited time - even though actually, such a limitation was impossible to implement on technical means, which the bank knew.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> A more appropriate one would be if you called your bank and told them to allow a 3rd party to have access to all of your accounts, then blamed your bank when the 3rd party drained all your accounts Better analogy: you call your bank to allow a third party to have access to all your accounts. My account gets drained. Still a breach.

Klathmon 9y ago
... But you previously gave me the ability to manage your accounts, then I gave it to the 3rd party that then drained your account. Still not a breach of the bank, nor a breach of facebook. The app didn't have any "extra" access or anything other than what the person who installed it would have. The app used the information that the person gave it, and that included information on friends that the person had access to. If you were impacted, blame yourself, your friends that you gave information to who gave it to a 3rd party, and/or the company that made the app. All facebook did was make the metaphorical parking lot that you got robbed in. While I agree that there is more they can do here to prevent this kind of thing (like specific and explicit controls on what data an app wants/needs at install time), acting like this is a breach of their information is wrong.
- bob_theslob646 9y ago
  Just like in real life, if someone slips and falls in the lot, the liability is on the owner of the lot. Owners of parking lots are incentivized to make sure people don't slip and fall or they will get sued.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

runeb 9y ago

Agree with your general statement, but still a bad analogy. You tell your bank to release all your info to third party, then a fourth party learns all your balances. The problem seems to be that people do not realize what it means to agree to information access for a third party, and the question remains weather Facebook is to blame for it being release to a fourth party. So really the problem is that people are not aware of the scope of the information aggregate of their actions on social media and how it is or may be used or abused.

Klathmon 9y ago
>the question remains weather Facebook is to blame for it being release to a fourth party. And I personally don't think Facebook should be to blame for it ending up in a fourth party's hands. They gave it to the 3rd party at the request of the user. What that 3rd party does with it should be of no concern to Facebook. If Facebook has to police what users are doing with their own data on other platforms, then strict DRM is going to become a legal necessity. That is what I see when I read comments saying how Facebook should take responsibility here. I agree that people don't seem to grasp what it means when they click the "i agree" button, and that Facebook (and others) should work much harder on getting the user to understand the full extent of what they are doing, as well as greater control over what data is shared and when. But that's not a problem that's easily solvable (or possibly even solvable at all). And calling for Facebook to simply not accept this information (which isn't a possibility, they are a social network, so social data has to exist on their systems), or to not allow users to have control over their own information is the exact opposite of what I and many others have been fighting for for years. If I want to export my information, or give it to a 3rd party, that is my right. And Facebook should have no ability to stop me from doing that. This will lead to people giving their personal information to parties that they do not intend to, but I feel that is a risk worth taking to keep your information yours.
- pier25 9y ago
  Should you be able to share your data with whomever you wish? Yes, I agree to that. OTOH you and I both know 99.99% of users don't understand what's going on with their data, so the question here is if adult users should be held responsible for something they don't understand and whether Facebook is actually responsible for not informing its users clearly of what was going on. Do you think it would have made a difference if Facebook had used a red blinking message alerting users before sharing their personal data with a third party? I think so. So yeah, the responsibility is not 100% on Facebook's users.

JoshMnem 9y ago

Users don't understand how data works and what can be done with it, so it isn't reasonable to expect that users will know how to protect themselves. The entire system is designed to hide what is being done to users from the users.

neuromantik8086 9y ago

How about your parents make you a joint account holder on their bank accounts to help them with their finances as they age, and then you allow a fraud to drain their account because you're ethically compromised?

xg15 9y ago

> That's a bad analogy. A more appropriate one would be if you called your bank and told them to allow a 3rd party to have access to all of your accounts, then blamed your bank when the 3rd party drained all your accounts. ...after the bank provided the infrastructure to give full control to a 3rd party, frequently encouraged me to do it and gave me the impression that I delegated access only for a specific task and a limited time - even though actually, such a limitation was impossible to implement on technical means, which the bank knew.