5 ms·

> People will die as a result of pretty much any peak oil scenario. Not really. South Africa was a third world country under heavy sanctions. Yet it created i

by w00pla 16y ago

> People will die as a result of pretty much any peak oil scenario. Not really. South Africa was a third world country under heavy sanctions. Yet it created industries to produce petroleum from coal (and even today these companies produce 40%+ of SA's liquid fuel requirements). If a crappy third world country can do it with 70ies technology (most of which they weren't even allowed to import legally), why can't first world country do this?

jsz0 16y ago
We'll probably be too busy fighting each other every step of the way. I don't know much about SA's situation but I'm going to take a guess that it was the pro-apartheid government that made it happen. Maybe they weren't so consumed about fighting with each other since they had a common enemy to focus on. I'm somewhat convinced we're at the point in the US where the opposition party (either one) would sabotage the plan for short term political gain.
- w00pla 16y ago
  > Maybe they weren't so consumed about fighting with each other since they had a common enemy to focus on. <rant> And who would this “common enemy” be? The Spiel that white people considered black people their enemies during Apartheid is a bit incorrect (yet a popular sentiment in the west). It is ironic that statistically, the plight of the majority of black people is now far worse in SA than during Apartheid (life expectancy, income inequality, unemployment, infancy mortality, matric pass rate, TIMSS score, etc…). Apartheid (i.e. separate development and rule for all ethnic and cultural groups) as an ideology is failed (mostly due to industrial development which caused South Africa to become a scrambled egg of people). Yet the ideology of full democracy (i.e. tyranny of the majority) is also spectacularly failing. Yet no one would acknowledge the latter failings. <\rant> > I'm somewhat convinced we're at the point in the US where the opposition party (either one) would sabotage the plan for short term political gain. But in any case, I digress. You are right about this part. Everyone is NIMBY. The problem is also that using coal to make fuel would release CO2. And this is counter to the ideology of the far left (which only wants non-practical solutions to be implemented). The USA landed people on the moon in less than a decade. I am sure that if they put their minds to it, they can expand nuclear power generation significantly (to reduce CO2) and start to make a significant part of their liquid fuel requirement from coal.
  - igravious 16y ago
    > The Spiel that white people considered black people their enemies during Apartheid Presumably what was meant was the common enemy was not the "darkies" but the rest of the world coming together and imposing sanctions. > Yet the ideology of full democracy (i.e. tyranny of the majority) is also spectacularly failing. Yet no one would acknowledge the latter failings. Naomi Klein does in The Shock Doctrine and a heck of a lot of people have read that book.
    - w00pla2 16y ago
      > but the rest of the world coming together and imposing sanctions. Maybe. It is just ironic that they are standing in line to do business with countries such as Equatorial Guinea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodoro_Obiang_Nguema_Mbasogo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodoro_Obiang_Nguema_Mbasogo) and Saudi Arabia. > Naomi Klein does in The Shock Doctrine and a heck of a lot of people have read that book. I am not a big fan of Naomi Klein. She probably attacked the governments macro economic policy? That is unfortunately the only thing that the ANC government did right in the past 16 years (this is now probably going to change with Zuma). The reason for SA's macroeconomic policy was probably because previous prez. Mbeki did a masters degree in economics at a British university.
      - igravious 16y ago
        I am a big fan. I don't care that you're not.
  - nbf 16y ago
    Your rant doesn't mention that benign-sounding "separate development and rule for all ethnic and cultural groups" under Apartheid forced blacks onto 13% of the land, even though they formed by far the largest population group in South Africa. Nor does it mention the fact that generations of blacks were forced by state policy into inferior "Bantu Education". Nor does it mention the fact that the migrant labour system, coupled with the other degrading laws to deprive blacks of economic and social freedom helped wreck the fabric of black society. I am as disgusted by the current ruling party's corruption as anyone, and I am appalled by the way the west generally seems to turn a blind eye to its massive failings. Apartheid was designed to turn black people into failures, and into an exploitable manual labour pool. And any attempt to decouple apartheid from its aftermath is, at best, highly inaccurate.

by w00pla 16y ago

jsz0 16y ago

We'll probably be too busy fighting each other every step of the way. I don't know much about SA's situation but I'm going to take a guess that it was the pro-apartheid government that made it happen. Maybe they weren't so consumed about fighting with each other since they had a common enemy to focus on. I'm somewhat convinced we're at the point in the US where the opposition party (either one) would sabotage the plan for short term political gain.

w00pla 16y ago
> Maybe they weren't so consumed about fighting with each other since they had a common enemy to focus on. <rant> And who would this “common enemy” be? The Spiel that white people considered black people their enemies during Apartheid is a bit incorrect (yet a popular sentiment in the west). It is ironic that statistically, the plight of the majority of black people is now far worse in SA than during Apartheid (life expectancy, income inequality, unemployment, infancy mortality, matric pass rate, TIMSS score, etc…). Apartheid (i.e. separate development and rule for all ethnic and cultural groups) as an ideology is failed (mostly due to industrial development which caused South Africa to become a scrambled egg of people). Yet the ideology of full democracy (i.e. tyranny of the majority) is also spectacularly failing. Yet no one would acknowledge the latter failings. <\rant> > I'm somewhat convinced we're at the point in the US where the opposition party (either one) would sabotage the plan for short term political gain. But in any case, I digress. You are right about this part. Everyone is NIMBY. The problem is also that using coal to make fuel would release CO2. And this is counter to the ideology of the far left (which only wants non-practical solutions to be implemented). The USA landed people on the moon in less than a decade. I am sure that if they put their minds to it, they can expand nuclear power generation significantly (to reduce CO2) and start to make a significant part of their liquid fuel requirement from coal.
- igravious 16y ago
  > The Spiel that white people considered black people their enemies during Apartheid Presumably what was meant was the common enemy was not the "darkies" but the rest of the world coming together and imposing sanctions. > Yet the ideology of full democracy (i.e. tyranny of the majority) is also spectacularly failing. Yet no one would acknowledge the latter failings. Naomi Klein does in The Shock Doctrine and a heck of a lot of people have read that book.
  - w00pla2 16y ago
    > but the rest of the world coming together and imposing sanctions. Maybe. It is just ironic that they are standing in line to do business with countries such as Equatorial Guinea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodoro_Obiang_Nguema_Mbasogo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teodoro_Obiang_Nguema_Mbasogo) and Saudi Arabia. > Naomi Klein does in The Shock Doctrine and a heck of a lot of people have read that book. I am not a big fan of Naomi Klein. She probably attacked the governments macro economic policy? That is unfortunately the only thing that the ANC government did right in the past 16 years (this is now probably going to change with Zuma). The reason for SA's macroeconomic policy was probably because previous prez. Mbeki did a masters degree in economics at a British university.
    - igravious 16y ago
      I am a big fan. I don't care that you're not.
- nbf 16y ago
  Your rant doesn't mention that benign-sounding "separate development and rule for all ethnic and cultural groups" under Apartheid forced blacks onto 13% of the land, even though they formed by far the largest population group in South Africa. Nor does it mention the fact that generations of blacks were forced by state policy into inferior "Bantu Education". Nor does it mention the fact that the migrant labour system, coupled with the other degrading laws to deprive blacks of economic and social freedom helped wreck the fabric of black society. I am as disgusted by the current ruling party's corruption as anyone, and I am appalled by the way the west generally seems to turn a blind eye to its massive failings. Apartheid was designed to turn black people into failures, and into an exploitable manual labour pool. And any attempt to decouple apartheid from its aftermath is, at best, highly inaccurate.