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It's interesting to see how many people make excuses for still using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier. I'm 26 and never used Faceb

It's interesting to see how many people make excuses for still using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier. I'm 26 and never used Facebook. My friends organize group events all the time, I'm always kept in the loop because I text my friends and ask what they are doing this weekend and/or meet with my friends regularly enough that they let me know what's going on. It's become well known that I don't get updates through FB so my friends will text me invites if I haven't asked for an update. People act as if Facebook is the only way to keep up with friends but it's just not the case. Every phone can still receive SMS and you can gasp meet your friends personally to catch up. Now for friends who live in distant locations you need to ask yourself: Does Facebook status updates really make me feel more connected to this person? My answer would be no, and I accept the fact that I just wont see my friends who live in other locations as much as I'd like, and I simply try to make it a habit of catching up when I'm in town. There was life before Facebook and there can be life without Facebook, stop making excuses.

Huggernaut 9y ago
> It's interesting to see how many people make excuses for still using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier. I'm 26 and never used Facebook. If you've never used it, how do you know it does not make life easier? Similarly, it's possibly a burden (albeit small) on your friends who have to text you in addition to organising for others. > Now for friends who live in distant locations you need to ask yourself: Does Facebook status updates really make me feel more connected to this person? For you no, for me absolutely 100%. Additionally, there are many opportunities I have discovered through Facebook that I likely would not have otherwise. For example, just last weekend I happened to be flying across continents and when I checked Facebook on my phone, I discovered a cousin I haven't seen in a while also happened to be flying to the same city on the same day. There would have been no reason to share this with each other, but because it was out there publicly I was able to see and organise time for us to meet. I often see content which prompts me to get in contact with people. I have no doubt I can survive without Facebook (though perhaps some might not), so for me you're arguing a strawman. For me, there is no doubt that it _is useful_, the question is whether that offsets the myriad negative impacts. To suggest that your experience (with admission that you've never used Facebook) is reflective of everyone and they should "stop making excuses" is pretty narrow.
- runj__ 9y ago
  >Similarly, it's possibly a burden (albeit small) on your friends who have to text you in addition to organizing for others. I really have to agree with this: using your friends as personal assistants is not cool. Planning events can be hard work, just scheduling your own weekend can be a hassle. That said: I do wish people used something other than Facebook to plan events. It's just not gonna happen anytime soon.
  - sanderjd 9y ago
    I know I'm an old fogey (like half a decade older than the parent commenter!), but I never really understand what people are talking about with this stuff. Throughout my 20s and to the present day, my weekend was not organized by checking for random events on Facebook, but by talking with my friends digitally or otherwise. How that is akin to "using your friends as personal assistants" is an absolute mystery to me. It sounds more like "using your friends as friends", which seems pretty normal...
    - derefr 9y ago
      If you’re talking to one friend, then that friend is essentially having to route your updates on time-constraints, preferences for places to go, etc. out to all your other friends, and route all their responses back to you. They really do become your secretary. Now, it is possible to fan out these update messages yourself through (lots and lots of) SMSing, but in almost every friend group I’ve been in, the problem is that I don’t actually have contact information for everyone who I want to meet up with. Basically: how do you negotiate restaurants with your best mate’s new vegan girlfriend? On Facebook, the two of you just have that conversation on the event page. Without Facebook, you have that conversation through your best mate—or maybe not at all, and then one or the other of you gets mad about where you end up eating.
      - vertex-four 9y ago
        Dear god, however did we survive before Facebook saved us all???
astine 9y ago
> I'm 26 and never used Facebook. I'm 31 and I've never used tobacco. If people who used tobacco just made better choices they could be like me. They really need to ask themselves if tobacco really makes them happier. /s --- I suppose it's a bit facile to compare Facebook to an addictive drug, but the idea that just because you've never used Facebook, nobody else should want to doesn't make any sense. Not everybody's circumstances and background are going to look like yours and people will have different needs. My friends probably have a very different dynamic than your friends so what works for you might not work for me or vice-versa.
- justherefortart 9y ago
  If you're 31, you've had facebook for what 11 years of your life at most? How'd you survive the other 20. Needs, that's comical. Facebook is not a need.
  - astine 9y ago
    I could obviously live without a Facebook account. My social life is just better with it than without it. Your circumstances might be different. The point is that everybody's circumstances are different so just because you don't derive value from a particular product or service doesn't mean that other people don't.
  - twblalock 9y ago
    If you're going to be super-literal about the word "need" then we can include pretty much nothing other than water, food, and shelter as "needs." But we wouldn't have a very useful conversation if we did that.
- SilasX 9y ago
  A lot of the Facebook deletion advice comes down to: "I'm hypercompetent at managing my social life and am constantly invited to important events by direct contact, and barely remember what it would not be like to be that way, therefore I don't see a significant downside to immediate cessation of all FB use."
twblalock 9y ago
You need to accept that Facebook adds value for some people. Maybe it doesn't add value for you, but that's no justification for extrapolating your personal experience to everyone else and assuming they are making excuses.
eecks 9y ago
Not everyone has good friends like that.
cwaffler 9y ago
I am a musician and we HAVE TO follow the trends to get shows. Used to be a bunch of tools, (I.E. myspace/reverb nation/bookyourownfuckinglife...) but now facebook seems to have dominated DIY events and concerts. Groups help with people to share shows and I'm not really aware of another tool that the majority of people will use to get shows booked in my community. Even if another tool exists how would I sway people away from FB and to a new tool?
- Symbiote 9y ago
  I like going to see small bands, and it's easiest to find them using Facebook. I "follow" two local promoters and a couple of venues, with the setting to show their events at the top of my timeline. Friends share events they're going to, and Facebook's algorithm shares them too. I used to use Last.FM, but stopped checking it once everything seemed to be on Facebook anyway. I still use it if I'm travelling to another city. I used to get a printed flyer from the promoter when I went to a gig, but they have mostly stopped printing them. I'd prefer not to have to check 10 promoter/venue websites, magazines or whatever. They probably don't have RSS, and are usually less-complete than Facebook.
- em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
  ditto here...musician and you basically have to be on facebook. Fans don't check every band & venue website calendars. It would have be great if average folk figured out RSS.
e40 9y ago
Momentum. I'm part of an organization that uses FB to communicate things to members. Yeah, I could try and get them to change. It's not worth my time. I just go to FB when I need to do business with the group.
grahamburger 9y ago
When people recommend that I quite Facebook I feel a little bit like I would if they recommended that I stop eating cookies. Sure - if I were to remove cookies completely from my diet there might be a marginal health benefit, as long as I didn't just replace them with something else. But really I don't eat cookies all that often anyway, it would be a pretty small change to my life. And when I do eat cookies I kind of enjoy it - sure I've had a bad one now and then but overall the experience is positive. Eating cookies isn't a big enough part of my life that I would really miss them in any meaningful way, but it's also not a big enough part of my life to feel like making an effort to cut them out would be at all worthwhile. But hey if it works for you it should work for literally everyone else, right?
derefr 9y ago
> I simply try to make it a habit of catching up when I'm in town Yes, but how do you do that? My long-distance friends are constantly moving address and changing phone numbers. Facebook (or an IM app, if they happen to still use the same one they used to) is the only way I know to figure out how to find my friends when I get back in town after a year or two away.
- Markoff 9y ago
  most of my contacts didn't change their email address in last ten years so you could always reach them through email if you don't have their whatsapp
LordDragonfang 9y ago
>using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier...I'm always kept in the loop because I text my friends and ask what they are doing this weekend and/or meet with my friends regularly enough that they let me know what's going on. It's become well known that I don't get updates through FB so my friends will text me invites if I haven't asked for an update. In other words, you're demonstrating an exception that proves the rule. Organizing events (without Facebook) is not a linear problem, it's a problem where each subcomponent scales directly with the number of people involved. Maybe not O(n^2), but at least O(n*log(n)). Every change to the planning of the event has to be spread to and approved by every attendee, requiring independent contact of each. Facebook centralises this by providing a central organization system that it is as close to guaranteed as possible that everyone has access to. This brings it back close to being a linear endeavor. Just because you claim you aren't benefiting from Facebook's competency in this area doesn't mean you aren't. You said it yourself: your friends know you are the outlier in this planning, so they can can remember to contact you separately without adding additional time complexity. They can handle all the other nuances of planning directly on Facebook and you gain the benefits without having to interact with it.
- 40acres 9y ago
  I think this is... fine? Are we concerned about our friends not using Facebook or are we concerned about you yourself not using Facebook. I don't see a problem with letting your friends organize things on Facebook and getting pulled into the loop by a member of the group.
  - StudentStuff 9y ago
    Thing is, when facebook isn't the primary platform this doesn't have to be an O(n^2) problem. Throwing everyone in a group, whether it be on Hangouts or Signal isn't terribly hard, nor is sending out an email invite if you'd prefer that vector.
oliwarner 9y ago
The problem Facebook papers over is something that could and perhaps now should be fixed by open protocol. The people most attached to Facebook —the people who will never give it up until it's clear it's dead— are those who want to conveniently share what they're doing with real life friends and family, as well as see what they're doing. They want a social network that everybody uses. I think it's easy for us to forget that when we're yammering on about the problems with Facebook. The way we fix that isn't bitching about Facebook; trying to get them to be a better Facebook, or having silly dreams about writing a competitor. We don't need another Facebook, we need a better technical expression of a social network. Something so fundamentally different that allows it to be decentralised from the gaping maws of companies like Facebook, simple enough for grandma, and built into everything; as prevalent as SMS and email. We're not there yet. Given the powers that control these things are also the people making and selling the devices, I'm not sure we'll ever be there... But that's the problem to solve.
marcelrusu 9y ago
This is true for organizing small events with friends but unfortunately for larger events like local concerts and such it gets hard to keep track of all the shows happening as someone active in the local music scene. Not to mention how difficult it is to put on shows without facebook promotion. Unfortunately Facebook is practically only platform where all the shows I care about are organized on. That being said, I've recently got off and now I depend on friends who stay on Facebook or word of mouth which has worked out, but I don't put on shows. Unfortunately Facebook has it's place.. for now
smsm42 9y ago
> Every phone can still receive SMS and you can gasp meet your friends personally to catch up. Sure, if you friends live next door. If they live on different continent, a bit harder to do. SMS is also pretty inefficient. I mean if one of your friends' daughter won a prize in school contest and you want to congratulate the happy father, that really can't happen over SMS. Unless the father is going to spam everybody in the contact list with the news, and get a wave of spam back. That'd be horrible. > It's become well known that I don't get updates through FB so my friends will text me invites if I haven't asked for an update. You friends accommodate you and make extra effort to adjust for you. Good for them. But that doesn't mean it is the best way to do things. Maybe Facebook isn't either, but this way doesn't seem to be any better than Facebook. In fact, it's worse. > Now for friends who live in distant locations you need to ask yourself: Does Facebook status updates really make me feel more connected to this person? My answer would be no My answer would be absolutely yes. > There was life before Facebook and there can be life without Facebook, stop making excuses. Why I need any excuses? Facebook is an instrument. Just as any other. No excuses are needed to use an instrument, and nobody owes anybody any explanations or excuses when they use tools they like. You prefer to use different tools? Good for you. Doesn't make any difference to people that have different preferences.
latexr 9y ago
> It's interesting to see how many people make excuses for still using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier. One of my favourite tweets, from Mike Monteiro: https://twitter.com/monteiro/status/321048448889663488 https://twitter.com/monteiro/status/321048448889663488 > I’ve heard excuses from people who want to quit Facebook but can’t that would make heroin addicts blush.
xtrimsky1234 9y ago
It's not about making excuses, it's about Facebook being the best tool. You could say that with anything, of course I could live without a car, without a cell phone, but they make the life better an easier. When I invite Family & Friends to my kids birthday party, if I were to do it without Facebook i'd have to have the phone or email of every single one of the people. I don't, it's difficult to keep a contact list updated with every phone or email address. I try to do it but Facebook does it better. It's much easier to not forget people. The suggestions are great. It's also an easy way to RSVP, something a phone would make very difficult to handle. Also yes Facebook makes me feel much more connected to people. Most of my family is global, my parents live in France, I have quite a lot of friends in France. Same for Canada, and also spread out across states in the US. I only see my sisters, parents, about only once a year. I would be terribly sad if we didn't post updates via Facebook. Yes we call each other via Skype, but it doesn't allow to share the activities we have done. The only way I would ditch Facebook, is if there is a better tool that does the same things.

Huggernaut 9y ago

> It's interesting to see how many people make excuses for still using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier. I'm 26 and never used Facebook. If you've never used it, how do you know it does not make life easier? Similarly, it's possibly a burden (albeit small) on your friends who have to text you in addition to organising for others. > Now for friends who live in distant locations you need to ask yourself: Does Facebook status updates really make me feel more connected to this person? For you no, for me absolutely 100%. Additionally, there are many opportunities I have discovered through Facebook that I likely would not have otherwise. For example, just last weekend I happened to be flying across continents and when I checked Facebook on my phone, I discovered a cousin I haven't seen in a while also happened to be flying to the same city on the same day. There would have been no reason to share this with each other, but because it was out there publicly I was able to see and organise time for us to meet. I often see content which prompts me to get in contact with people. I have no doubt I can survive without Facebook (though perhaps some might not), so for me you're arguing a strawman. For me, there is no doubt that it _is useful_, the question is whether that offsets the myriad negative impacts. To suggest that your experience (with admission that you've never used Facebook) is reflective of everyone and they should "stop making excuses" is pretty narrow.

runj__ 9y ago
>Similarly, it's possibly a burden (albeit small) on your friends who have to text you in addition to organizing for others. I really have to agree with this: using your friends as personal assistants is not cool. Planning events can be hard work, just scheduling your own weekend can be a hassle. That said: I do wish people used something other than Facebook to plan events. It's just not gonna happen anytime soon.
- sanderjd 9y ago
  I know I'm an old fogey (like half a decade older than the parent commenter!), but I never really understand what people are talking about with this stuff. Throughout my 20s and to the present day, my weekend was not organized by checking for random events on Facebook, but by talking with my friends digitally or otherwise. How that is akin to "using your friends as personal assistants" is an absolute mystery to me. It sounds more like "using your friends as friends", which seems pretty normal...
  - derefr 9y ago
    If you’re talking to one friend, then that friend is essentially having to route your updates on time-constraints, preferences for places to go, etc. out to all your other friends, and route all their responses back to you. They really do become your secretary. Now, it is possible to fan out these update messages yourself through (lots and lots of) SMSing, but in almost every friend group I’ve been in, the problem is that I don’t actually have contact information for everyone who I want to meet up with. Basically: how do you negotiate restaurants with your best mate’s new vegan girlfriend? On Facebook, the two of you just have that conversation on the event page. Without Facebook, you have that conversation through your best mate—or maybe not at all, and then one or the other of you gets mad about where you end up eating.
    - vertex-four 9y ago
      Dear god, however did we survive before Facebook saved us all???

astine 9y ago

> I'm 26 and never used Facebook. I'm 31 and I've never used tobacco. If people who used tobacco just made better choices they could be like me. They really need to ask themselves if tobacco really makes them happier. /s --- I suppose it's a bit facile to compare Facebook to an addictive drug, but the idea that just because you've never used Facebook, nobody else should want to doesn't make any sense. Not everybody's circumstances and background are going to look like yours and people will have different needs. My friends probably have a very different dynamic than your friends so what works for you might not work for me or vice-versa.

justherefortart 9y ago
If you're 31, you've had facebook for what 11 years of your life at most? How'd you survive the other 20. Needs, that's comical. Facebook is not a need.
- astine 9y ago
  I could obviously live without a Facebook account. My social life is just better with it than without it. Your circumstances might be different. The point is that everybody's circumstances are different so just because you don't derive value from a particular product or service doesn't mean that other people don't.
- twblalock 9y ago
  If you're going to be super-literal about the word "need" then we can include pretty much nothing other than water, food, and shelter as "needs." But we wouldn't have a very useful conversation if we did that.
SilasX 9y ago
A lot of the Facebook deletion advice comes down to: "I'm hypercompetent at managing my social life and am constantly invited to important events by direct contact, and barely remember what it would not be like to be that way, therefore I don't see a significant downside to immediate cessation of all FB use."

twblalock 9y ago

You need to accept that Facebook adds value for some people. Maybe it doesn't add value for you, but that's no justification for extrapolating your personal experience to everyone else and assuming they are making excuses.

eecks 9y ago

Not everyone has good friends like that.

cwaffler 9y ago

I am a musician and we HAVE TO follow the trends to get shows. Used to be a bunch of tools, (I.E. myspace/reverb nation/bookyourownfuckinglife...) but now facebook seems to have dominated DIY events and concerts. Groups help with people to share shows and I'm not really aware of another tool that the majority of people will use to get shows booked in my community. Even if another tool exists how would I sway people away from FB and to a new tool?

Symbiote 9y ago
I like going to see small bands, and it's easiest to find them using Facebook. I "follow" two local promoters and a couple of venues, with the setting to show their events at the top of my timeline. Friends share events they're going to, and Facebook's algorithm shares them too. I used to use Last.FM, but stopped checking it once everything seemed to be on Facebook anyway. I still use it if I'm travelling to another city. I used to get a printed flyer from the promoter when I went to a gig, but they have mostly stopped printing them. I'd prefer not to have to check 10 promoter/venue websites, magazines or whatever. They probably don't have RSS, and are usually less-complete than Facebook.
em3rgent0rdr 9y ago
ditto here...musician and you basically have to be on facebook. Fans don't check every band & venue website calendars. It would have be great if average folk figured out RSS.

e40 9y ago

Momentum. I'm part of an organization that uses FB to communicate things to members. Yeah, I could try and get them to change. It's not worth my time. I just go to FB when I need to do business with the group.

grahamburger 9y ago

When people recommend that I quite Facebook I feel a little bit like I would if they recommended that I stop eating cookies. Sure - if I were to remove cookies completely from my diet there might be a marginal health benefit, as long as I didn't just replace them with something else. But really I don't eat cookies all that often anyway, it would be a pretty small change to my life. And when I do eat cookies I kind of enjoy it - sure I've had a bad one now and then but overall the experience is positive. Eating cookies isn't a big enough part of my life that I would really miss them in any meaningful way, but it's also not a big enough part of my life to feel like making an effort to cut them out would be at all worthwhile. But hey if it works for you it should work for literally everyone else, right?

derefr 9y ago

> I simply try to make it a habit of catching up when I'm in town Yes, but how do you do that? My long-distance friends are constantly moving address and changing phone numbers. Facebook (or an IM app, if they happen to still use the same one they used to) is the only way I know to figure out how to find my friends when I get back in town after a year or two away.

Markoff 9y ago
most of my contacts didn't change their email address in last ten years so you could always reach them through email if you don't have their whatsapp

LordDragonfang 9y ago

>using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier...I'm always kept in the loop because I text my friends and ask what they are doing this weekend and/or meet with my friends regularly enough that they let me know what's going on. It's become well known that I don't get updates through FB so my friends will text me invites if I haven't asked for an update. In other words, you're demonstrating an exception that proves the rule. Organizing events (without Facebook) is not a linear problem, it's a problem where each subcomponent scales directly with the number of people involved. Maybe not O(n^2), but at least O(n*log(n)). Every change to the planning of the event has to be spread to and approved by every attendee, requiring independent contact of each. Facebook centralises this by providing a central organization system that it is as close to guaranteed as possible that everyone has access to. This brings it back close to being a linear endeavor. Just because you claim you aren't benefiting from Facebook's competency in this area doesn't mean you aren't. You said it yourself: your friends know you are the outlier in this planning, so they can can remember to contact you separately without adding additional time complexity. They can handle all the other nuances of planning directly on Facebook and you gain the benefits without having to interact with it.

40acres 9y ago
I think this is... fine? Are we concerned about our friends not using Facebook or are we concerned about you yourself not using Facebook. I don't see a problem with letting your friends organize things on Facebook and getting pulled into the loop by a member of the group.
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  Thing is, when facebook isn't the primary platform this doesn't have to be an O(n^2) problem. Throwing everyone in a group, whether it be on Hangouts or Signal isn't terribly hard, nor is sending out an email invite if you'd prefer that vector.

oliwarner 9y ago

The problem Facebook papers over is something that could and perhaps now should be fixed by open protocol. The people most attached to Facebook —the people who will never give it up until it's clear it's dead— are those who want to conveniently share what they're doing with real life friends and family, as well as see what they're doing. They want a social network that everybody uses. I think it's easy for us to forget that when we're yammering on about the problems with Facebook. The way we fix that isn't bitching about Facebook; trying to get them to be a better Facebook, or having silly dreams about writing a competitor. We don't need another Facebook, we need a better technical expression of a social network. Something so fundamentally different that allows it to be decentralised from the gaping maws of companies like Facebook, simple enough for grandma, and built into everything; as prevalent as SMS and email. We're not there yet. Given the powers that control these things are also the people making and selling the devices, I'm not sure we'll ever be there... But that's the problem to solve.

marcelrusu 9y ago

This is true for organizing small events with friends but unfortunately for larger events like local concerts and such it gets hard to keep track of all the shows happening as someone active in the local music scene. Not to mention how difficult it is to put on shows without facebook promotion. Unfortunately Facebook is practically only platform where all the shows I care about are organized on. That being said, I've recently got off and now I depend on friends who stay on Facebook or word of mouth which has worked out, but I don't put on shows. Unfortunately Facebook has it's place.. for now

smsm42 9y ago

> Every phone can still receive SMS and you can gasp meet your friends personally to catch up. Sure, if you friends live next door. If they live on different continent, a bit harder to do. SMS is also pretty inefficient. I mean if one of your friends' daughter won a prize in school contest and you want to congratulate the happy father, that really can't happen over SMS. Unless the father is going to spam everybody in the contact list with the news, and get a wave of spam back. That'd be horrible. > It's become well known that I don't get updates through FB so my friends will text me invites if I haven't asked for an update. You friends accommodate you and make extra effort to adjust for you. Good for them. But that doesn't mean it is the best way to do things. Maybe Facebook isn't either, but this way doesn't seem to be any better than Facebook. In fact, it's worse. > Now for friends who live in distant locations you need to ask yourself: Does Facebook status updates really make me feel more connected to this person? My answer would be no My answer would be absolutely yes. > There was life before Facebook and there can be life without Facebook, stop making excuses. Why I need any excuses? Facebook is an instrument. Just as any other. No excuses are needed to use an instrument, and nobody owes anybody any explanations or excuses when they use tools they like. You prefer to use different tools? Good for you. Doesn't make any difference to people that have different preferences.

latexr 9y ago

> It's interesting to see how many people make excuses for still using Facebook because it makes event organizing and the like easier. One of my favourite tweets, from Mike Monteiro: https://twitter.com/monteiro/status/321048448889663488 https://twitter.com/monteiro/status/321048448889663488 > I’ve heard excuses from people who want to quit Facebook but can’t that would make heroin addicts blush.

xtrimsky1234 9y ago

It's not about making excuses, it's about Facebook being the best tool. You could say that with anything, of course I could live without a car, without a cell phone, but they make the life better an easier. When I invite Family & Friends to my kids birthday party, if I were to do it without Facebook i'd have to have the phone or email of every single one of the people. I don't, it's difficult to keep a contact list updated with every phone or email address. I try to do it but Facebook does it better. It's much easier to not forget people. The suggestions are great. It's also an easy way to RSVP, something a phone would make very difficult to handle. Also yes Facebook makes me feel much more connected to people. Most of my family is global, my parents live in France, I have quite a lot of friends in France. Same for Canada, and also spread out across states in the US. I only see my sisters, parents, about only once a year. I would be terribly sad if we didn't post updates via Facebook. Yes we call each other via Skype, but it doesn't allow to share the activities we have done. The only way I would ditch Facebook, is if there is a better tool that does the same things.