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No. Stop with the "if you call people out for saying shitty things, then you helped elect Trump!" meme. It's complete and utter bullshit, and all it does is ser

No. Stop with the "if you call people out for saying shitty things, then you helped elect Trump!" meme. It's complete and utter bullshit, and all it does is serve to empower the racists to say whatever they want without being called out on. And yes, the campaign is incredibly anti-immigrant; just look at the group pushing it. Yes, one can say that the H1B system needs reform, and that it leads to a lot of abuse without being anti-immigrant. But if your solution is to just scrap the whole thing, that is anti-immigrant.

biocomputation 9y ago
Scrapping H1-B doesn't end legal immigration. Saying that you want to end immigration to the US, period, is anti-immigrant. Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant.
- Erlangolem 9y ago
  I’m pretty far to the Left on the issue of immigration, but I totally agree with you. As far as I’ve seen, the H1-B system is a means for some US employers to keep wages and benefits artificially depressed, through abuse of the system.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  "Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant." Yes it is. You're saying that those people should not be able to immigrate to the US.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kthejoker2 9y ago
    There are other ways to immigrate to the US besides H1-B? I don't understand you claim that H1-B is the only way anyone immigrates to America.
jnbiche 9y ago
> But if your solution is to just scrap the whole thing, that is anti-immigrant That is utter bullshit. Advocating scraping H1B is not anti-immigrant, particularly when many of us are also pro-DACA, and for increasing our general immigration quotas. But it's wrong to target specific workers for wage suppression, whether that's programmers, construction workers, or field workers. And yes, if you go around calling people "anti-immigrant" (like you just called me) and "racist" who normally should be your allies, you are helping elect candidates like Trump. Because most people won't stick around with you when you do that. They'll defect to the other side, the side that's attacking you. It's human nature.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  Scrapping H1B altogether, without advocating for a replacement program that would still allow those people to come here is extremely anti-immigrant, because you're saying those people should not have a path to come here. "And yes, if you go around calling people "anti-immigrant" (like you just called me) and "racist" who normally should be your allies, you are helping elect candidates like Trump." Only if those people are so childish that they cannot take a bit of criticism. And if a bit of criticism is all it takes for you to do an about face and join Trump, then you never believed in those positions to start with.
  - jnbiche 9y ago
    > And if a bit of criticism is all it takes for you to do an about face and join Trump I would never join an overt authoritarian like Trump, but many people did for this exact reason. People resent being denigrated with terms like "racist" and "anti-immigrant" when they're trying to have a reasonable debate about immigration reform, and not suggesting totally blocking immigrants from coming here. It's wrong, but experiences being called names will often push people in the arms of a powerful figure who promises to put the people calling them names into their proper place. I'm all for calling out Nazis and racists by their proper name, but if you believe that opposing H1B makes you "anti-immigrant", then you've lost the thread.
    - 9y ago

biocomputation 9y ago

Scrapping H1-B doesn't end legal immigration. Saying that you want to end immigration to the US, period, is anti-immigrant. Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant.

Erlangolem 9y ago
I’m pretty far to the Left on the issue of immigration, but I totally agree with you. As far as I’ve seen, the H1-B system is a means for some US employers to keep wages and benefits artificially depressed, through abuse of the system.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
"Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant." Yes it is. You're saying that those people should not be able to immigrate to the US.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- kthejoker2 9y ago
  There are other ways to immigrate to the US besides H1-B? I don't understand you claim that H1-B is the only way anyone immigrates to America.

jnbiche 9y ago

> But if your solution is to just scrap the whole thing, that is anti-immigrant That is utter bullshit. Advocating scraping H1B is not anti-immigrant, particularly when many of us are also pro-DACA, and for increasing our general immigration quotas. But it's wrong to target specific workers for wage suppression, whether that's programmers, construction workers, or field workers. And yes, if you go around calling people "anti-immigrant" (like you just called me) and "racist" who normally should be your allies, you are helping elect candidates like Trump. Because most people won't stick around with you when you do that. They'll defect to the other side, the side that's attacking you. It's human nature.

s73v3r_ 9y ago
Scrapping H1B altogether, without advocating for a replacement program that would still allow those people to come here is extremely anti-immigrant, because you're saying those people should not have a path to come here. "And yes, if you go around calling people "anti-immigrant" (like you just called me) and "racist" who normally should be your allies, you are helping elect candidates like Trump." Only if those people are so childish that they cannot take a bit of criticism. And if a bit of criticism is all it takes for you to do an about face and join Trump, then you never believed in those positions to start with.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  > And if a bit of criticism is all it takes for you to do an about face and join Trump I would never join an overt authoritarian like Trump, but many people did for this exact reason. People resent being denigrated with terms like "racist" and "anti-immigrant" when they're trying to have a reasonable debate about immigration reform, and not suggesting totally blocking immigrants from coming here. It's wrong, but experiences being called names will often push people in the arms of a powerful figure who promises to put the people calling them names into their proper place. I'm all for calling out Nazis and racists by their proper name, but if you believe that opposing H1B makes you "anti-immigrant", then you've lost the thread.
  - 9y ago