4 ms·

It's ridiculous to call this campaign 'anti-immigrant'. I'm very much for increasing our general skilled and unskilled immigration lottery quotas and our asylum

It's ridiculous to call this campaign 'anti-immigrant'. I'm very much for increasing our general skilled and unskilled immigration lottery quotas and our asylum allotment. However, I'm very much against programs like H1B that are abused to suppress workers' salaries. Industries should not be permitted to bring in foreign workers (who are often not even citizenship track!) whenever the demand for a certain skill increases and salaries go up accordingly, all to bring salaries down to a level that's more "affordable" for those industries. It's wrong and it's anti-worker. If the paragraph above sounds "racist" or "xenophobic" to you, I'd suggest examining the role you played in the election of Trump. It's not wrong, racist, or unethical for workers to protect their rights and their livelihood. I love diversity and immigrants, but H1B isn't designed for that, it's designed to suppress worker salaries, and also reduces employment opportunities.

nowayjose123 9y ago
The H1B doesn't directly allow worker exploitation. There are two classes of H1 workers: the vast majority who work for consulting firms/body shops and the better skilled minority that works for "product" companies in the Bay Area, New York, Seattle and other tech hubs. The second type of worker typically has employer sponsorship for green cards and skills that allow them to find new jobs. Green cards are given out on a per-country-cap basis. Because India and China have large populations, H1 workers from those countries have to wait a long time to get their green cards. Whereas people from almost any other country can have an employer sponsored green card in a matter of 2-4 years. Fix the green card system and you'll mostly not have many H1 workers in SV software companies (only those waiting for their green cards to be filed). It's hard to make the argument that tech workers making $200k/year are indentured servants or exploited in some way or a "cheaper" alternative to domestic talent. That then just leaves workers from the first category, body shops, which draws most of the H1 ire for being cheap and low-skilled . I don't have a good solution for fixing it and agree that the numbers there probably need to be reduced. If no employer thinks you're worth the cost of sponsoring a GC then your skills probably aren't that great and it's a more fair system.
- jnbiche 9y ago
  I vouched for your comment and made it visible, even though I disagree with parts of it. I agree that there are two "tiers" of H1B workers. But statistically, the vast majority belong to the body shop tier. And many if not most of those workers end up in cities where the salary for tech workers are definitely not making $200,000/year, and where it's much harder to find a decent programming job. I agree that there should be a visa program for companies who cannot actually find workers with certain skills. Actually, there is such a program (forgetting the visa name, it's for immigrants with outstanding contributions to a field). Perhaps it should be widened. But such a program can never cover companies looking for cheap programmers for CRUD apps, like the current H1B often does. Actually, I think I agree with all but your very first sentence, which the rest of your comment doesn't seem to support. A more accurate statement would be "The H1B doesn't always directly allow worker exploitation".
s2g 9y ago
Oh so youre fine with immigrants as long as most of them are in the underclass you can ignore except when you hire them to mow your lawn.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
No. Stop with the "if you call people out for saying shitty things, then you helped elect Trump!" meme. It's complete and utter bullshit, and all it does is serve to empower the racists to say whatever they want without being called out on. And yes, the campaign is incredibly anti-immigrant; just look at the group pushing it. Yes, one can say that the H1B system needs reform, and that it leads to a lot of abuse without being anti-immigrant. But if your solution is to just scrap the whole thing, that is anti-immigrant.
- biocomputation 9y ago
  Scrapping H1-B doesn't end legal immigration. Saying that you want to end immigration to the US, period, is anti-immigrant. Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant.
  - Erlangolem 9y ago
    I’m pretty far to the Left on the issue of immigration, but I totally agree with you. As far as I’ve seen, the H1-B system is a means for some US employers to keep wages and benefits artificially depressed, through abuse of the system.
  - s73v3r_ 9y ago
    "Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant." Yes it is. You're saying that those people should not be able to immigrate to the US.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - kthejoker2 9y ago
      There are other ways to immigrate to the US besides H1-B? I don't understand you claim that H1-B is the only way anyone immigrates to America.
- 9y ago

nowayjose123 9y ago

The H1B doesn't directly allow worker exploitation. There are two classes of H1 workers: the vast majority who work for consulting firms/body shops and the better skilled minority that works for "product" companies in the Bay Area, New York, Seattle and other tech hubs. The second type of worker typically has employer sponsorship for green cards and skills that allow them to find new jobs. Green cards are given out on a per-country-cap basis. Because India and China have large populations, H1 workers from those countries have to wait a long time to get their green cards. Whereas people from almost any other country can have an employer sponsored green card in a matter of 2-4 years. Fix the green card system and you'll mostly not have many H1 workers in SV software companies (only those waiting for their green cards to be filed). It's hard to make the argument that tech workers making $200k/year are indentured servants or exploited in some way or a "cheaper" alternative to domestic talent. That then just leaves workers from the first category, body shops, which draws most of the H1 ire for being cheap and low-skilled . I don't have a good solution for fixing it and agree that the numbers there probably need to be reduced. If no employer thinks you're worth the cost of sponsoring a GC then your skills probably aren't that great and it's a more fair system.

jnbiche 9y ago
I vouched for your comment and made it visible, even though I disagree with parts of it. I agree that there are two "tiers" of H1B workers. But statistically, the vast majority belong to the body shop tier. And many if not most of those workers end up in cities where the salary for tech workers are definitely not making $200,000/year, and where it's much harder to find a decent programming job. I agree that there should be a visa program for companies who cannot actually find workers with certain skills. Actually, there is such a program (forgetting the visa name, it's for immigrants with outstanding contributions to a field). Perhaps it should be widened. But such a program can never cover companies looking for cheap programmers for CRUD apps, like the current H1B often does. Actually, I think I agree with all but your very first sentence, which the rest of your comment doesn't seem to support. A more accurate statement would be "The H1B doesn't always directly allow worker exploitation".

s2g 9y ago

Oh so youre fine with immigrants as long as most of them are in the underclass you can ignore except when you hire them to mow your lawn.

s73v3r_ 9y ago

No. Stop with the "if you call people out for saying shitty things, then you helped elect Trump!" meme. It's complete and utter bullshit, and all it does is serve to empower the racists to say whatever they want without being called out on. And yes, the campaign is incredibly anti-immigrant; just look at the group pushing it. Yes, one can say that the H1B system needs reform, and that it leads to a lot of abuse without being anti-immigrant. But if your solution is to just scrap the whole thing, that is anti-immigrant.

biocomputation 9y ago
Scrapping H1-B doesn't end legal immigration. Saying that you want to end immigration to the US, period, is anti-immigrant. Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant.
- Erlangolem 9y ago
  I’m pretty far to the Left on the issue of immigration, but I totally agree with you. As far as I’ve seen, the H1-B system is a means for some US employers to keep wages and benefits artificially depressed, through abuse of the system.
- s73v3r_ 9y ago
  "Saying that you want to end H1-B because you think these jobs should go to American citizens is not anti-immigrant." Yes it is. You're saying that those people should not be able to immigrate to the US.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - kthejoker2 9y ago
    There are other ways to immigrate to the US besides H1-B? I don't understand you claim that H1-B is the only way anyone immigrates to America.
9y ago