5 ms·
I understand and sympathise with that example. But surely you agree that not all lines of work can be equally compensated. That doesn't mean that hard work is
by kaolti 9y ago
I understand and sympathise with that example. But surely you agree that not all lines of work can be equally compensated.
That doesn't mean that hard work is ineffective and a lie though?
- s73v3r_ 9y agoIt kinda does. If the "types" of work that get compensated well enough for success are arbitrarily chosen, then that indicates that hard work itself is a lie.
- aantix 9y agoWhat evidence do you cite that they are arbitrarily chosen?
- s73v3r_ 9y agoI think you need to provide evidence that they are not. But for my evidence, I would put forth important positions, like teachers, being grossly underpaid as evidence that they are arbitrarily chosen.
- question_that 9y agoHow do you know that teachers are underpaid?
- malvosenior 9y agoIt’s not arbitrary at all. The market sets pricing, it’s not magic. If we fully deregulated education I bet you’d see teacher’s salaries rise. Of course then only the wealthy would get an education but it’s disingenuous to suggest demand and its impact on price is “arbitrary”.
- s73v3r_ 9y agoSaying "The market sets pricing" is admitting that it's arbitrary. "If we fully deregulated education I bet you’d see teacher’s salaries rise." I don't, not by a long shot. "it’s disingenuous to suggest demand and its impact on price is “arbitrary”." But that's not what I'm suggesting. Demand for teachers is pretty high. Pay has not risen to meet that demand, however. Demand for software engineers is also high, but only in some places has that demand correlated with a rise in salary. It is completely arbitrary.
- malvosenior 9y agoSupply and demand defining price is economics 101. If you’re going to propose an alternative reality, you’re going to have to provide some data to back it up.
- s73v3r_ 9y agoAnd Econ 101 is extremely simplified, due to being an entry level course. Go beyond the freshman level, and you'll find far more nuanced forces at play.
- malvosenior 9y agoNuanced != arbitrary
- falcolas 9y agoBy the market, do you mean the government? Because they set the budget for education, and that budget determines how much money is available to pay teachers with. Or do you mean the voters, who typically vote down attempts to increase the money for education budgets - typically because most taxpayers don't have children active in education. There are no market forces at work here whatsoever. > If we fully deregulated education I bet you’d see teacher’s salaries rise. One can look at private schools (including universities) and see this is not the case. The pay does increase slightly, but nowhere near proportionally to the value provided. A lot of that extra money provided by private citizens for their children's education is absorbed by bureaucracy (and football).
- malvosenior 9y ago> The pay does increase slightly, but nowhere near proportionally to the value provided. Maybe it’s not as valuable as you think it is. If it was, people with means would pay more for it.
- s73v3r_ 9y agoThat's a flat out fairy tale.
- malvosenior 9y agoWhy wouldn’t the wealthy pay more for education if it was truly worth it?
- s73v3r_ 9y agoThey didn't get wealthy by throwing money at things.
- falcolas 9y agoWell, no, I'd say that it means that the line of work matters much more than the amount of work put into it. Between two salesmen in the B2B industry, the amount of work put forward will create a difference in their overall pay. But both salesmen will make more than the hardest working waiter or waitress.
- FranzFerdiNaN 9y agoOf course they can. It's a political choice not to.
- andrei_says_ 9y agoPositing that hard work guarantees anything is the lie. It is a narrative that has been perpetuated by all those who benefit by exploiting hard work. Smart work ought to be more beneficial than hard work but the narrative focuses on “hard work” with connotations of pushing oneself beyond one’s comfort zone and limits, which implies increased exploit-ability. It is an immoral statement which left without investigation causes suffering and inequality for many. Hard work depletes the worker and is therefore ineffective as it creates an imbalance which that person, their family etc. need to pick up. This balance is not reflected by the accounting of the employer so economically it is hard to detect.