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I feel it is like reinventing executables, the dumb way. We can compare that with ELF binaries or remote procedure calls when someone else maintains the OS and

I feel it is like reinventing executables, the dumb way. We can compare that with ELF binaries or remote procedure calls when someone else maintains the OS and makes sure that the infrastructure scales. Actual not even executables, because it is still interpreted code, instead of being "compiled" it is packed and distributed with a spec much less precise than a typical platform. Just because someone has a machine ready to be deployed on and scale ad infinitum. Am I the only one who finds that a dumb protocol for a remote call? Could someone point on which part is this a smart badass thing? Perhaps it is just a weird "renascence of Operating Systems"? Edit: I still think that we got here because it was too much work to learn about pre-existing technology or hire an expert and it was more fashionable/easy/cool/sexy to kick ass and move on. P.S. Sorry for this sudden rant

bamboozled 9y ago
I agree with this sentiment and feel the same way. I also find this is a frustrating trend in our industry in where a lot of engineers seem to be spending more time learning about "services" from specific vendors than about things like network protocols and their workings and limitations.
- sedachv 9y ago
  > Maybe this is just inevitable evolution of the IT industry but I've noticed two things that are alarming. I was at the Southern California Linux Expo[1] earlier this month, and one of the really weird things was how many people from Microsoft were presenting and attending (I wasn't the only one - Bryan Lunduke, ex-MSFT, did a podcast episode about it[2]). I think the trends you point out are from a lot of Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Java, etc people now being forced into the Linux world, because Linux is now the default for new IT projects. Unfortunately they are bringing along their "practices" instead of retraining in good software systems engineering. [1] https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/16x https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/16x [2] http://lunduke.com/2018/03/10/microsoft-headlined-a-major-linux-conference/ http://lunduke.com/2018/03/10/microsoft-headlined-a-major-li...
sedachv 9y ago
> Perhaps it is just a weird "renascence of Operating Systems"? "Serverless" really comes down to being a fancy inetd(8). The "new" part is all in proprietary software-as-a-service to automate server deployment, cluster management and configuration, network configuration, access control, and log collection. In the next technology cycle 6-10 years from now, people will realize that having so much of your software tied into proprietary software-as-a-service is an idea that is even worse than running on proprietary operating systems (NT, Netware, VMS) was in the 1990s. > I feel it is like reinventing executables, the dumb way. Consider this: in the Unix philosophy, most executables consist of taking things that should be procedures and packaging them up as programs. "Serverless" is largely about applying the Unix philosophy to SaaS - "microservices." So now you are taking things that are really procedures, packaging them up as executables, then packaging those programs up as Internet servers. I heard or read somewhere a quip that debugging this "stack" is something like the Russian fairytale about Кощей[1]: you have to find a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest, which is buried under an oak tree, which is on an island. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei

bamboozled 9y ago

I agree with this sentiment and feel the same way. I also find this is a frustrating trend in our industry in where a lot of engineers seem to be spending more time learning about "services" from specific vendors than about things like network protocols and their workings and limitations.

sedachv 9y ago
> Maybe this is just inevitable evolution of the IT industry but I've noticed two things that are alarming. I was at the Southern California Linux Expo[1] earlier this month, and one of the really weird things was how many people from Microsoft were presenting and attending (I wasn't the only one - Bryan Lunduke, ex-MSFT, did a podcast episode about it[2]). I think the trends you point out are from a lot of Microsoft, IBM, Oracle, Java, etc people now being forced into the Linux world, because Linux is now the default for new IT projects. Unfortunately they are bringing along their "practices" instead of retraining in good software systems engineering. [1] https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/16x https://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale/16x [2] http://lunduke.com/2018/03/10/microsoft-headlined-a-major-linux-conference/ http://lunduke.com/2018/03/10/microsoft-headlined-a-major-li...

sedachv 9y ago

> Perhaps it is just a weird "renascence of Operating Systems"? "Serverless" really comes down to being a fancy inetd(8). The "new" part is all in proprietary software-as-a-service to automate server deployment, cluster management and configuration, network configuration, access control, and log collection. In the next technology cycle 6-10 years from now, people will realize that having so much of your software tied into proprietary software-as-a-service is an idea that is even worse than running on proprietary operating systems (NT, Netware, VMS) was in the 1990s. > I feel it is like reinventing executables, the dumb way. Consider this: in the Unix philosophy, most executables consist of taking things that should be procedures and packaging them up as programs. "Serverless" is largely about applying the Unix philosophy to SaaS - "microservices." So now you are taking things that are really procedures, packaging them up as executables, then packaging those programs up as Internet servers. I heard or read somewhere a quip that debugging this "stack" is something like the Russian fairytale about Кощей[1]: you have to find a needle, which is in an egg, which is in a duck, which is in a hare, which is in an iron chest, which is buried under an oak tree, which is on an island. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koschei