8 ms·

I don't think debt by itself can destroy a relationship. Lack of proper communication can. I had under $50k debt from my undergrad (international student, doubl

by chime 16y ago

I don't think debt by itself can destroy a relationship. Lack of proper communication can. I had under $50k debt from my undergrad (international student, double the cost of tuition) and my wife had none. My masters was being paid by my employer while she would be taking about $80k in loans to pay for her medical masters. We were upfront to each other about our obligations and plans of repayment. I've paid off almost all of my debt and she will take care of hers once she graduates. Even if we both had 100k+ in debt, it wouldn't make a huge difference to our standard of living. We'd simply be paying off debt instead of adding to our savings.

danilocampos 16y ago
Really important observation. Glad you deflated the sensational headline. Debt is a big deal. But we're all carrying around big deals, one way or another. The important part is being open and honest with yourself, so you can be open with the person you want to share your life with. Eastman was avoiding the truth of her situation, which screwed both herself and her fiance. You could just as easily say "How having prior children can ruin budding relationships." And sure, they can discourage them. But a relationship where the kid situation is known up front is very different from a relationship where the kid is disclosed a few weeks before the wedding.
- houseabsolute 16y ago
  Then again, no amount of communication is going to completely negate the blow of someone with $200k or more debt who does not plan to earn enough to pay it off. There's a lesson in that . . . something like, "Don't buy expensive things unless you're sure you want them and can pay for them."
  - danilocampos 16y ago
    I mean, yeah. There's debt and then there's debt. But if you've got any chance at all of succeeding, you need to talk about this sooner rather than later.
  - Mz 16y ago
    Well, I think one of the distinctions that has to be made is investment debt vs consumer debt. OP for this thread is talking about debt for education (an investment), which typically comes with the expectation that getting that education will increase their earning capacity. The scenario you describe implies consumer debt. Someone with $200k in consumer debt is a very different animal from someone with $100k in education debt.
sliverstorm 16y ago
What if you find yourself essentially wedding your way into a mountain of debt? By legally binding yourself to that person, don't you become jointly responsible (and culpable) for their finances, including past debts?
- jbellis 16y ago
  No. this is discussed in TFA.
  - sliverstorm 16y ago
    At least from what I read, TFA only discussed how the debts relate to divorce.
- Estragon 16y ago
  Depends on the state. In most, assets and liabilities acquired prior to marriage remain with the individual.
- hnal943 16y ago
  No, you don't become legally responsible for any debt you didn't sign for (that's true for your parents as well as your spouse). However, in the event of a divorce, the court will divide up the debts as well as the assets and assign them to both parties. This is certainly fair for debts that were incurred during the time the couple was married. Debts incurred before the marriage would be handled like assets brought into the marriage; in general, an effort will be made by the court to restore individuals to their pre-marriage state. That said, marriage is about two people joining their lives together into one, and that means combining your financial lives as well. That means it's our income, our cars, our debt. Disagreement about money is one of the leading causes of divorce. In separating your finances, you are prone to living more like roommates than a married couple.
steveklabnik 16y ago
> I had under $50k debt from my undergrad (international student, double the cost of tuition) For some perspective, 1 year of undergrad at CMU this year (tuition + room and board) is now $50k.
- mhansen 16y ago
  That's insane. I'm at Waikato University, New Zealand, and we pay around NZD13000 (~= USD9000) a year
  - akgerber 16y ago
    Many private-university students receive nontrivial scholarships. And if you study a technical field at CMU you're unlikely to have trouble paying back the loans. I graduated CMU in May. I have quite a bit of debt, but got a good job straight out of school and aim to have the debt paid off in a year by living like the graduate students I live with.
  - henrikschroder 16y ago
    That's insane. I'm in Sweden, all university tuition is free.
    - mixu 16y ago
      Not only that, also, the government pays for university study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_benefit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_benefit (Though realistically the total sum is only enough for paying rent, so most people still end up having to work somewhat during their studies.)
    - mseebach 16y ago
      No, it's not free. It's paid for by the taxpayers.
hnal943 16y ago
You and your wife have made several key decisions that indicate you are on the same page with money and will be successful: 1. You will live on less than you make 2. With the extra money, you will pay off your debt. 3. Once done with that, you will build up savings so you won't need to borrow for emergencies. You correctly point out that communication is the largest issue here. However, before these couples can even communicate about their financial situations, they will need to understand them first. I think that anyone that does not have at least a vague understanding of what their financial situation is not yet mature enough to be married.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
barkingcat 16y ago
I truly believe that debt by itself can destroy relationships. You speak as a person who has the prospect of actually paying it off. What if your partner coming into the relationship has a lifetime debt that cannot be paid off at you and your partner's forseeable income level far into the future, until your 80 and 90's? Would you want to be paying debt for your entire life? For someone who has the ability to make 80k a year, debt seems like something that can be managed away. If you have no hackerly skills, and work at minimum wage (like a large number of north americans these days) - what hope do you have of maintaining a relationship that is purely controlled by a debt collector?
- chime 16y ago
  > Would you want to be paying debt for your entire life? For the love of my life? I'd work 3 jobs and work overtime.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - Estragon 16y ago
    This is a false dichotomy. There are many people you could love.
- eru 16y ago
  Can't you do a personal bankruptcy, if the debt is overwhelming you?
  - fhars 16y ago
    That is the beauty (for the lender, that is) of the american student loan system: they are mostly immune to bancruptcy of the borrower, see for example http://chronicle.com/article/Lawmakers-Introduce-Bills-to/65217/ http://chronicle.com/article/Lawmakers-Introduce-Bills-to/65... for the current discussions.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]

by chime 16y ago

danilocampos 16y ago

Really important observation. Glad you deflated the sensational headline. Debt is a big deal. But we're all carrying around big deals, one way or another. The important part is being open and honest with yourself, so you can be open with the person you want to share your life with. Eastman was avoiding the truth of her situation, which screwed both herself and her fiance. You could just as easily say "How having prior children can ruin budding relationships." And sure, they can discourage them. But a relationship where the kid situation is known up front is very different from a relationship where the kid is disclosed a few weeks before the wedding.

houseabsolute 16y ago
Then again, no amount of communication is going to completely negate the blow of someone with $200k or more debt who does not plan to earn enough to pay it off. There's a lesson in that . . . something like, "Don't buy expensive things unless you're sure you want them and can pay for them."
- danilocampos 16y ago
  I mean, yeah. There's debt and then there's debt. But if you've got any chance at all of succeeding, you need to talk about this sooner rather than later.
- Mz 16y ago
  Well, I think one of the distinctions that has to be made is investment debt vs consumer debt. OP for this thread is talking about debt for education (an investment), which typically comes with the expectation that getting that education will increase their earning capacity. The scenario you describe implies consumer debt. Someone with $200k in consumer debt is a very different animal from someone with $100k in education debt.

sliverstorm 16y ago

What if you find yourself essentially wedding your way into a mountain of debt? By legally binding yourself to that person, don't you become jointly responsible (and culpable) for their finances, including past debts?

jbellis 16y ago
No. this is discussed in TFA.
- sliverstorm 16y ago
  At least from what I read, TFA only discussed how the debts relate to divorce.
Estragon 16y ago
Depends on the state. In most, assets and liabilities acquired prior to marriage remain with the individual.
hnal943 16y ago
No, you don't become legally responsible for any debt you didn't sign for (that's true for your parents as well as your spouse). However, in the event of a divorce, the court will divide up the debts as well as the assets and assign them to both parties. This is certainly fair for debts that were incurred during the time the couple was married. Debts incurred before the marriage would be handled like assets brought into the marriage; in general, an effort will be made by the court to restore individuals to their pre-marriage state. That said, marriage is about two people joining their lives together into one, and that means combining your financial lives as well. That means it's our income, our cars, our debt. Disagreement about money is one of the leading causes of divorce. In separating your finances, you are prone to living more like roommates than a married couple.

steveklabnik 16y ago

> I had under $50k debt from my undergrad (international student, double the cost of tuition) For some perspective, 1 year of undergrad at CMU this year (tuition + room and board) is now $50k.

mhansen 16y ago
That's insane. I'm at Waikato University, New Zealand, and we pay around NZD13000 (~= USD9000) a year
- akgerber 16y ago
  Many private-university students receive nontrivial scholarships. And if you study a technical field at CMU you're unlikely to have trouble paying back the loans. I graduated CMU in May. I have quite a bit of debt, but got a good job straight out of school and aim to have the debt paid off in a year by living like the graduate students I live with.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  That's insane. I'm in Sweden, all university tuition is free.
  - mixu 16y ago
    Not only that, also, the government pays for university study. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_benefit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_benefit (Though realistically the total sum is only enough for paying rent, so most people still end up having to work somewhat during their studies.)
  - mseebach 16y ago
    No, it's not free. It's paid for by the taxpayers.

hnal943 16y ago

You and your wife have made several key decisions that indicate you are on the same page with money and will be successful: 1. You will live on less than you make 2. With the extra money, you will pay off your debt. 3. Once done with that, you will build up savings so you won't need to borrow for emergencies. You correctly point out that communication is the largest issue here. However, before these couples can even communicate about their financial situations, they will need to understand them first. I think that anyone that does not have at least a vague understanding of what their financial situation is not yet mature enough to be married.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

barkingcat 16y ago

I truly believe that debt by itself can destroy relationships. You speak as a person who has the prospect of actually paying it off. What if your partner coming into the relationship has a lifetime debt that cannot be paid off at you and your partner's forseeable income level far into the future, until your 80 and 90's? Would you want to be paying debt for your entire life? For someone who has the ability to make 80k a year, debt seems like something that can be managed away. If you have no hackerly skills, and work at minimum wage (like a large number of north americans these days) - what hope do you have of maintaining a relationship that is purely controlled by a debt collector?

chime 16y ago
> Would you want to be paying debt for your entire life? For the love of my life? I'd work 3 jobs and work overtime.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- Estragon 16y ago
  This is a false dichotomy. There are many people you could love.
eru 16y ago
Can't you do a personal bankruptcy, if the debt is overwhelming you?
- fhars 16y ago
  That is the beauty (for the lender, that is) of the american student loan system: they are mostly immune to bancruptcy of the borrower, see for example http://chronicle.com/article/Lawmakers-Introduce-Bills-to/65217/ http://chronicle.com/article/Lawmakers-Introduce-Bills-to/65... for the current discussions.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]