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> This is a company that have been mass producing cars for only 5 years, it's normal that they are still catching up with the process. this, getting a producti

> This is a company that have been mass producing cars for only 5 years, it's normal that they are still catching up with the process. this, getting a production line optimized can take years, especially if you are relatively new to the field and the company has little instituted knowledge at hand. I know in Europe for instance, many plants that fabricate parts for the big three have been doing so since the early 50's, and thus have an amazing body of knowledge on what works and what doesn't in terms or producing high quality parts in high numbers. Tesla does not seem to really have this knowledge.

foepys 9y ago
Tesla tried to buy that knowledge by aquiring German robotics specialist Grohmann. When the acquisition was complete, Tesla in classic startup fashion tried to pressure employees into overtime and to cut all obligations Grohmann had to other, mostly German, car manufacturers. This resulted in Grohmann's CEO leaving the company in protest and unions threatening strikes. I image quite a few top execs and engineers left with the CEO and went to VW, BMW, and Daimler. Even lower level employees leaving would be hard on Tesla as those people, despite "just" doing blue-collar work, are highly trained specialists.
- gmueckl 9y ago
  The overtime claim csme up a whule ago already and back then I could not find a supporting source. There was a payment negotiation shortly after Grohmann was bought, but thay did not seem out of the ordinary, either. Remember that Grohmann is a German company operating under German law, which is very different from U.S. labor laws.
simion314 9y ago
Is Tesla using fresh people without experience? I imagine they would hire people with experience to setup the factories and the processes, it would be much more expensive to use people fresh from the school without experience.
- user5994461 9y ago
  Where do you find them? There aren't that many people with experience, in any field, and they are usually not in the right location. Also, the ones with a job in a decent company will not leave to a worse company.
  - kjksf 9y ago
    Tesla has no problem hiring industry veterans. If you spend a bit of time on Linkedin you'll find that many Tesla executives have spent 5-10 years at other car manufacterers. To give you a start: a guy in charge Tesla semi spent 8 years at Daimler (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeromeguillen/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeromeguillen/) A guy in charge in Tesla's Fremont factory (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gilbert-passin-74a36117/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/gilbert-passin-74a36117/) spent 17 years at Renault, Mack Trucks, Volvo and Toyota. Given how rapidly is Tesla's stock rising I'm sure they are pretty attractive employer especially compared to the likes of convicted criminal organizations like Volkswagen.
    - user5994461 9y ago
      Executives are the easiest people to identify and to hire. You select them from your major competitors and you throw a bunch of money at them. It's easier done than said. Then you're gonna need hundreds of people to design and manufacture the cars, in specific locations. These positions are a lot harder to fill. A general is useless without his army. An executive is useless without employees.
      - simion314 9y ago
        Say you need some air filters for a new Tesla model, you do not need to make them inside Tesla, usually you make some requirements then show them to a few companies that make air filters, this companies will respond with a design and with an offer and you chose the company you want to make the air filters for you. So you could source most of the parts that are not Tesla specific, then the problem is managing the efficient transport of this parts, storing them, and the hard problem of assembling them, for this problems you will have to hire people with experience to setup this processes, build the assembly lines, handle QA, unfortunately for Tesla they can't be cheep with the experienced workers(even here in Romania experienced engineers are expensive and if you do not pay them enough they leave because they get offers all the time from the competitors)
SteveJS 9y ago
How much of this is transferable? Is this institutional manufacturing knowledge a gigantic amount of potential energy for tesla’s competition that will put them in lead for EVs? Or is it a friction keeping a competitive EV from a big car manufacturer eternally around the corner? Is the rework something that is actually comparable to normal automotive manufacturing lines? Or is it highly specific to EVs? If it’s EV specific it seems reasonable to believe there is no relevant institutional knowledge existing at Tesla’s competitors. I have no background here .. how would one best decide if this is evidence Tesla is behind on a solved problem it’s competitors know how to solve or ahead on an unsolved problem it’s conpetitors are also struggling with outside of the limelight?
- Rebelgecko 9y ago
  From what I've seen, it includes lots of non-EV specific things like: door has huge gap on one side, rubs against frame on other side panels not fitting together correctly screwed up weather stripping application

foepys 9y ago

Tesla tried to buy that knowledge by aquiring German robotics specialist Grohmann. When the acquisition was complete, Tesla in classic startup fashion tried to pressure employees into overtime and to cut all obligations Grohmann had to other, mostly German, car manufacturers. This resulted in Grohmann's CEO leaving the company in protest and unions threatening strikes. I image quite a few top execs and engineers left with the CEO and went to VW, BMW, and Daimler. Even lower level employees leaving would be hard on Tesla as those people, despite "just" doing blue-collar work, are highly trained specialists.

gmueckl 9y ago
The overtime claim csme up a whule ago already and back then I could not find a supporting source. There was a payment negotiation shortly after Grohmann was bought, but thay did not seem out of the ordinary, either. Remember that Grohmann is a German company operating under German law, which is very different from U.S. labor laws.

simion314 9y ago

Is Tesla using fresh people without experience? I imagine they would hire people with experience to setup the factories and the processes, it would be much more expensive to use people fresh from the school without experience.

user5994461 9y ago
Where do you find them? There aren't that many people with experience, in any field, and they are usually not in the right location. Also, the ones with a job in a decent company will not leave to a worse company.
- kjksf 9y ago
  Tesla has no problem hiring industry veterans. If you spend a bit of time on Linkedin you'll find that many Tesla executives have spent 5-10 years at other car manufacterers. To give you a start: a guy in charge Tesla semi spent 8 years at Daimler (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeromeguillen/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeromeguillen/) A guy in charge in Tesla's Fremont factory (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gilbert-passin-74a36117/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/gilbert-passin-74a36117/) spent 17 years at Renault, Mack Trucks, Volvo and Toyota. Given how rapidly is Tesla's stock rising I'm sure they are pretty attractive employer especially compared to the likes of convicted criminal organizations like Volkswagen.
  - user5994461 9y ago
    Executives are the easiest people to identify and to hire. You select them from your major competitors and you throw a bunch of money at them. It's easier done than said. Then you're gonna need hundreds of people to design and manufacture the cars, in specific locations. These positions are a lot harder to fill. A general is useless without his army. An executive is useless without employees.
    - simion314 9y ago
      Say you need some air filters for a new Tesla model, you do not need to make them inside Tesla, usually you make some requirements then show them to a few companies that make air filters, this companies will respond with a design and with an offer and you chose the company you want to make the air filters for you. So you could source most of the parts that are not Tesla specific, then the problem is managing the efficient transport of this parts, storing them, and the hard problem of assembling them, for this problems you will have to hire people with experience to setup this processes, build the assembly lines, handle QA, unfortunately for Tesla they can't be cheep with the experienced workers(even here in Romania experienced engineers are expensive and if you do not pay them enough they leave because they get offers all the time from the competitors)

SteveJS 9y ago

How much of this is transferable? Is this institutional manufacturing knowledge a gigantic amount of potential energy for tesla’s competition that will put them in lead for EVs? Or is it a friction keeping a competitive EV from a big car manufacturer eternally around the corner? Is the rework something that is actually comparable to normal automotive manufacturing lines? Or is it highly specific to EVs? If it’s EV specific it seems reasonable to believe there is no relevant institutional knowledge existing at Tesla’s competitors. I have no background here .. how would one best decide if this is evidence Tesla is behind on a solved problem it’s competitors know how to solve or ahead on an unsolved problem it’s conpetitors are also struggling with outside of the limelight?

Rebelgecko 9y ago
From what I've seen, it includes lots of non-EV specific things like: door has huge gap on one side, rubs against frame on other side panels not fitting together correctly screwed up weather stripping application