7 ms·

I got my BSCS from this school, and landed a great gig within a month of graduation. As a "re-entry" student on a tight budget (30 year-old working food service

I got my BSCS from this school, and landed a great gig within a month of graduation. As a "re-entry" student on a tight budget (30 year-old working food service), I met many others who were similarly driven to build the skillsets and relationships to launch their careers as efficiently as possible. Anecdotally, I will say these factors likely boost the effectiveness of this particular campus: 1. Smart, capable students have the "inferiority complex" of being surrounded by CalTech, USC, UCLA. They know they need to push harder to have equal footing when stepping into the industry. 2. Several of the industries represented in Los Angeles are more interested in loyal, hard-working candidates than prestigious/elite geniuses. I have talked with many representatives from companies partnering with CSULA on student projects who have expressed this. 3. Students I met were generally more interested in launching their careers than in pursuing the quintessential "college life", e.g. parties, campus societies 4. Specifically for STEM students: the Los Angeles tech scene has deep roots with the aerospace industry, as well as a lot of companies doing real tech work without the flair of typical SV/NYC companies. I had instructors who work (or have worked) at NASA JPL, AT&T, Boeing, Western Digital, and in medical research at USC/UCLA.

kelukelugames 9y ago
Number 2 could be a positive spin on not wanting to pay employees more.
- afterburner 9y ago
  Absolutely. I've personally experienced a workplace where the managers preferred hiring from the lesser respected university in the area, because they were able to undercut even more on salaries.
- dbcurtis 9y ago
  Eh... maybe. But that is only an initial hire effect. Once you get into a big company, there is a salary band for each pay grade, so things even out if there is meritocracy. Years ago, when I lived in the upper Midwest, I had fellow manager tell me he liked to hire engineers that grew up on dairy farms. "They know that they have to show up every day. They know that a certain amount of st comes along with every job, even great ones, so you might as well just spend a few minutes with a shovel and get it out of the way. They know the work doesn't get done by somebody else if they don't do it." As a manager I've had the experience myself of convincing kids from fancy schools that, yes, I really do expect them to contribute to the less fun assignments, too. Only once did that not have a good outcome -- but that guy had other issues, too.
  - stochastic_monk 9y ago
    Sometimes it does. In my experience, starting salary is an albatross around your neck. I was by far our best performer but was compensated the same as everyone else in my position after years of excellent work, which my coworkers and supervisors would corroborate. That’s part of why I’m earning a PhD.
    - pacaro 9y ago
      This is part of why potential employers in California aren’t permitted to ask you your current salary. My starting salary in 1994 was (converting to USD), $18,000 by 2001 I was earning $84,000 (my last salary in the UK) Starting salary doesn’t have to be a limitation, it is an uphill climb, but it’s not on your “permanent record”
- akhilcacharya 9y ago
  I've noticed this as well. Folks from less elite schools are less likely to know how much their skills are worth as well. Lots of people I've talked to at my school don't believe software engineers can make $160k-$200k TC out of undergrad.
  - kelukelugames 9y ago
    People need confidence, entitlement, or experience to ask for their worth. Employers know this. Companies brag about taking advantage of information asymmetry to pay us less and we applaud them for it?
    - lotsofpulp 9y ago
      No, people need multiple offers to compete for their worth. If you let one company tell you how much you're worth, then that is on you. Learning to sell yourself is also a skill, so unless employers are colluding (which I know does happen, and am not excusing), then there isn't anything insidious about paying less for people without brand name reputations. It's the same as buying anything brand name, you're paying for the (presumed) higher probability of higher quality or reduced chance of failure. Transparency of salaries would be a boon to the general public, but we have such a huge social stigma against discussing pay, that employers can take advantage of this, however that's not the employer's fault.
  - heedlessly2 9y ago
    Students from elite schools have better leverage. All the big tech companies come to their university such as Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.. etc. for career fairs and on-campus recruiting. So those students are more likely to have multiple offers across those big names. Whereas the no-name university need to hope their resumes stick out from 1000s on the job portal. So they have an even harder time just getting one of those "top" offers
prestonh 9y ago
I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points. In particular: >> 1. Smart, capable students have the "inferiority complex" of being surrounded by CalTech, USC, UCLA. They know they need to push harder to have equal footing when stepping into the industry. I just ended my graduate studies at a UC school and had some miscellaneous encounters with CSU students, both undergrad and graduate. I found that for the most part they were just as capable as many UC students, but what set many of them apart was their maturity. This may be because many of them came from unconventional backgrounds, they were either lucky to be attending college or were attending college later on in life. At the same time, a lot of them felt like UC was a more legitimate college, or that they were somehow less intelligent because they were going to a state school.
- MaxLeiter 9y ago
  As a highschooler hearing back from UCs and CSUs at the moment, this is true from the start. The UCs are magnitudes harder to get in to vs the CSUs, and are therefore more prestigious. However, that does depend on the CSU. Cal Poly is highly regarded (engineering-wise), while UC Merced or Riverside are often held at a "lower tier". Anecdotally, a lot of people hold Chico at the bottom, and Berkeley/Cal at the top of CA public schools.
  - DrScump 9y ago
    Anecdotally, a lot of people hold Chico at the bottom Fairly or unfairly, Chico State has a reputation within the CSU system as the "party school".
    - kfriede 9y ago
      Similarly with UCSB on the UC side.
      - MaxLeiter 9y ago
        I think UCSC is higher on the list of party UC schools
harrisjt 9y ago
I think more people that go to Ivies are hard workers then have so much natural ability that it doesn't require much work. Nowadays you have to be doing multiple extra curricular activities and qualifying for summer programs, etc.
- waxwander 9y ago
  People at ivies mostly just had a lucky background (if you look at the statistics based on income). I really doubt they work any harder. Even side by side you're not really comparing apples to oranges if you compare the amount of work a low income person has to do to get into an ivy and the typical high income ivy kid.
  - akhilcacharya 9y ago
    Eh - I could see that but there are people with lucky backgrounds at state schools as well. Most of the folks I know at elite schools grew up in very similar circumstances to myself.
  - currymj 9y ago
    other than like, the children of international royalty and whatnot, you just can't get into an Ivy League school without working really hard one way or another. rich kids might go to less-prestigious private schools, but they're not getting into the Ivy League without working hard at something.
    - harrisjt 9y ago
      This is essentially what I was trying to get at. I think people have many misconceptions when it comes to different tiers of education, it might be a topic worth some research.
- jonathanyc 9y ago
  As someone who went to an Ivy, I don’t think so. There are lots of hard workers, especially international students from poorer areas, but there are also tons of rich kids (international and domestic) that get in because their families could afford to send them to Africa / have them be taught horse-riding. In fact, extra-curricular activities are to me to very strongly associated with middle class / upper class families. Even the not rich kids often have had very supportive families. The vast majority of students don’t take college classes in high school / decide to compete in olympiads by themselves. At the least it takes a supportive teacher or more likely a supportive parent to suggest the idea—most kids in most neighborhoods aren’t even aware of the existence of such programs.
jostmey 9y ago
There's no substitute for hard work. Of course, working hard is not enough. You have to work smartly
aphextron 9y ago
>I got my BSCS from this school, and landed a great gig within a month of graduation. As a "re-entry" student on a tight budget (30 year-old working food service), I met many others who were similarly driven to build the skillsets and relationships to launch their careers as efficiently as possible. As someone working their way through the California public school system in a similar situation, I've hit a roadblock with the math classes. Having no background in even basic high school math has killed me, failing pre-calculus twice now. Any tips?
- mikehotel 9y ago
  Try https://www.khanacademy.org/math/precalculus https://www.khanacademy.org/math/precalculus for an alternative explanation, especially when traditional teaching methods don’t click.
- 1337biz 9y ago
  Find somebody on Craigslist for tutoring or reade the fine print of your degree requirements. Often there are semi-loopholes such as the ability to transfer in credits from outside courses that can help you figure out replacements.
- pacaro 9y ago
  Math tip: seek to understand wherever possible, not just learn a series of rules. Things that you can construct from first principles are almost by definition understood and learned at a deeper level. It may take longer that way at first, but it’s a shortcut in the end. YMMV
- oofoe 9y ago
  I was in a similar situation in college. What helped me was to do /every/ problem in the homework and check them -- many math books will provide answers to even or odd numbered questions. It sounds like a drag (and it was), but I also finally passed with a very good grade! Also after you've done the homework, make sure you consult with your teacher about things that troubled you. Having battled your way through so many examples, you will be able to appreciate their explanation better than if you never tried them. Good luck!
throwaway26340 9y ago
I got my start at Glendale Community College (number 4 on that list). From there, I went on to UCLA, NASA/JPL, and, now, Google. It has been quite the journey. I wasn’t born in the US, nor was I from a wealthy or educated family (at one point we were on foodstamps, but reached ‘middle’ class by the time I started high-school). Though, in comparison, my parent’s journey has been a much longer one, where they were born in a third world country as second class citizens—-into the life of subsistance farming in a remote village on land they did not own. The “inferiority complex” is real until you get to your new destination, and realize the people at UCLA or JPL or Google aren’t very different from you. Furthermore, projects/institutions that you have put on a pedestal since childhood are a lot less “magical” once you have seen how the sausage is made. I’ve met exceptional people from Cal State schools and people I wouldn’t hire from MIT. At this point, I find the school a person graduated from, for undergrad, to be a weak signal at best; and in many cases their grad school as well.
- jxramos 9y ago
  "...a lot less 'magical' once you have seen how the sausage is made." I remember discovering this phenomenon too coming up from a underprivileged background (to use a common term). I had great appreciation for recognizing this phenomenon reading a forward to some homeschooling book. You might appreciate this blurb too... "The Roman writer Tacitus said, "Omne ignotum, pro magnifico," which translates roughly, "Everything unknown is taken for wonderful." Think about it. Somehow we humans have this complex to assume great ideal things when ignorant of them. I've been pondering this for the past 10 months or so.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    I use to apply that to get ideas: Avoid learning how something works at first. Study outside factors. E.g. look at screenshots of an application. Try to imagine how it works. Only learn how it actually works after that. I started doing that after realizing that I used to do this with software I saw in magazines as a child, and then get disappointed when I got the actual software: When you just look at the surface, it's easy to infer a lot of qualities that are not there, and be entirely unaware of the shortcomings.
rconti 9y ago
My sister's a Yale Ph.D who has taught in the SUNY system and other public schools and has really gotten a lot of out teaching these student populations, and finds them far more impressive than Ivy League students. Hard working, many of them first-generation college students, often working full time jobs and supporting families, all with minimal complaints. They're paying their bills and they're expecting ROI on that tuition -- and put in the corresponding amount of work on their studies.
heedlessly2 9y ago
plus all the Claremont colleges are in LA too

kelukelugames 9y ago

Number 2 could be a positive spin on not wanting to pay employees more.

afterburner 9y ago
Absolutely. I've personally experienced a workplace where the managers preferred hiring from the lesser respected university in the area, because they were able to undercut even more on salaries.
dbcurtis 9y ago
Eh... maybe. But that is only an initial hire effect. Once you get into a big company, there is a salary band for each pay grade, so things even out if there is meritocracy. Years ago, when I lived in the upper Midwest, I had fellow manager tell me he liked to hire engineers that grew up on dairy farms. "They know that they have to show up every day. They know that a certain amount of st comes along with every job, even great ones, so you might as well just spend a few minutes with a shovel and get it out of the way. They know the work doesn't get done by somebody else if they don't do it." As a manager I've had the experience myself of convincing kids from fancy schools that, yes, I really do expect them to contribute to the less fun assignments, too. Only once did that not have a good outcome -- but that guy had other issues, too.
- stochastic_monk 9y ago
  Sometimes it does. In my experience, starting salary is an albatross around your neck. I was by far our best performer but was compensated the same as everyone else in my position after years of excellent work, which my coworkers and supervisors would corroborate. That’s part of why I’m earning a PhD.
  - pacaro 9y ago
    This is part of why potential employers in California aren’t permitted to ask you your current salary. My starting salary in 1994 was (converting to USD), $18,000 by 2001 I was earning $84,000 (my last salary in the UK) Starting salary doesn’t have to be a limitation, it is an uphill climb, but it’s not on your “permanent record”
akhilcacharya 9y ago
I've noticed this as well. Folks from less elite schools are less likely to know how much their skills are worth as well. Lots of people I've talked to at my school don't believe software engineers can make $160k-$200k TC out of undergrad.
- kelukelugames 9y ago
  People need confidence, entitlement, or experience to ask for their worth. Employers know this. Companies brag about taking advantage of information asymmetry to pay us less and we applaud them for it?
  - lotsofpulp 9y ago
    No, people need multiple offers to compete for their worth. If you let one company tell you how much you're worth, then that is on you. Learning to sell yourself is also a skill, so unless employers are colluding (which I know does happen, and am not excusing), then there isn't anything insidious about paying less for people without brand name reputations. It's the same as buying anything brand name, you're paying for the (presumed) higher probability of higher quality or reduced chance of failure. Transparency of salaries would be a boon to the general public, but we have such a huge social stigma against discussing pay, that employers can take advantage of this, however that's not the employer's fault.
- heedlessly2 9y ago
  Students from elite schools have better leverage. All the big tech companies come to their university such as Facebook, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.. etc. for career fairs and on-campus recruiting. So those students are more likely to have multiple offers across those big names. Whereas the no-name university need to hope their resumes stick out from 1000s on the job portal. So they have an even harder time just getting one of those "top" offers

prestonh 9y ago

I think you hit the nail on the head with a lot of your points. In particular: >> 1. Smart, capable students have the "inferiority complex" of being surrounded by CalTech, USC, UCLA. They know they need to push harder to have equal footing when stepping into the industry. I just ended my graduate studies at a UC school and had some miscellaneous encounters with CSU students, both undergrad and graduate. I found that for the most part they were just as capable as many UC students, but what set many of them apart was their maturity. This may be because many of them came from unconventional backgrounds, they were either lucky to be attending college or were attending college later on in life. At the same time, a lot of them felt like UC was a more legitimate college, or that they were somehow less intelligent because they were going to a state school.

MaxLeiter 9y ago
As a highschooler hearing back from UCs and CSUs at the moment, this is true from the start. The UCs are magnitudes harder to get in to vs the CSUs, and are therefore more prestigious. However, that does depend on the CSU. Cal Poly is highly regarded (engineering-wise), while UC Merced or Riverside are often held at a "lower tier". Anecdotally, a lot of people hold Chico at the bottom, and Berkeley/Cal at the top of CA public schools.
- DrScump 9y ago
  Anecdotally, a lot of people hold Chico at the bottom Fairly or unfairly, Chico State has a reputation within the CSU system as the "party school".
  - kfriede 9y ago
    Similarly with UCSB on the UC side.
    - MaxLeiter 9y ago
      I think UCSC is higher on the list of party UC schools

harrisjt 9y ago

I think more people that go to Ivies are hard workers then have so much natural ability that it doesn't require much work. Nowadays you have to be doing multiple extra curricular activities and qualifying for summer programs, etc.

waxwander 9y ago
People at ivies mostly just had a lucky background (if you look at the statistics based on income). I really doubt they work any harder. Even side by side you're not really comparing apples to oranges if you compare the amount of work a low income person has to do to get into an ivy and the typical high income ivy kid.
- akhilcacharya 9y ago
  Eh - I could see that but there are people with lucky backgrounds at state schools as well. Most of the folks I know at elite schools grew up in very similar circumstances to myself.
- currymj 9y ago
  other than like, the children of international royalty and whatnot, you just can't get into an Ivy League school without working really hard one way or another. rich kids might go to less-prestigious private schools, but they're not getting into the Ivy League without working hard at something.
  - harrisjt 9y ago
    This is essentially what I was trying to get at. I think people have many misconceptions when it comes to different tiers of education, it might be a topic worth some research.
jonathanyc 9y ago
As someone who went to an Ivy, I don’t think so. There are lots of hard workers, especially international students from poorer areas, but there are also tons of rich kids (international and domestic) that get in because their families could afford to send them to Africa / have them be taught horse-riding. In fact, extra-curricular activities are to me to very strongly associated with middle class / upper class families. Even the not rich kids often have had very supportive families. The vast majority of students don’t take college classes in high school / decide to compete in olympiads by themselves. At the least it takes a supportive teacher or more likely a supportive parent to suggest the idea—most kids in most neighborhoods aren’t even aware of the existence of such programs.

jostmey 9y ago

There's no substitute for hard work. Of course, working hard is not enough. You have to work smartly

aphextron 9y ago

>I got my BSCS from this school, and landed a great gig within a month of graduation. As a "re-entry" student on a tight budget (30 year-old working food service), I met many others who were similarly driven to build the skillsets and relationships to launch their careers as efficiently as possible. As someone working their way through the California public school system in a similar situation, I've hit a roadblock with the math classes. Having no background in even basic high school math has killed me, failing pre-calculus twice now. Any tips?

mikehotel 9y ago
Try https://www.khanacademy.org/math/precalculus https://www.khanacademy.org/math/precalculus for an alternative explanation, especially when traditional teaching methods don’t click.
1337biz 9y ago
Find somebody on Craigslist for tutoring or reade the fine print of your degree requirements. Often there are semi-loopholes such as the ability to transfer in credits from outside courses that can help you figure out replacements.
pacaro 9y ago
Math tip: seek to understand wherever possible, not just learn a series of rules. Things that you can construct from first principles are almost by definition understood and learned at a deeper level. It may take longer that way at first, but it’s a shortcut in the end. YMMV
oofoe 9y ago
I was in a similar situation in college. What helped me was to do /every/ problem in the homework and check them -- many math books will provide answers to even or odd numbered questions. It sounds like a drag (and it was), but I also finally passed with a very good grade! Also after you've done the homework, make sure you consult with your teacher about things that troubled you. Having battled your way through so many examples, you will be able to appreciate their explanation better than if you never tried them. Good luck!

throwaway26340 9y ago

I got my start at Glendale Community College (number 4 on that list). From there, I went on to UCLA, NASA/JPL, and, now, Google. It has been quite the journey. I wasn’t born in the US, nor was I from a wealthy or educated family (at one point we were on foodstamps, but reached ‘middle’ class by the time I started high-school). Though, in comparison, my parent’s journey has been a much longer one, where they were born in a third world country as second class citizens—-into the life of subsistance farming in a remote village on land they did not own. The “inferiority complex” is real until you get to your new destination, and realize the people at UCLA or JPL or Google aren’t very different from you. Furthermore, projects/institutions that you have put on a pedestal since childhood are a lot less “magical” once you have seen how the sausage is made. I’ve met exceptional people from Cal State schools and people I wouldn’t hire from MIT. At this point, I find the school a person graduated from, for undergrad, to be a weak signal at best; and in many cases their grad school as well.

jxramos 9y ago
"...a lot less 'magical' once you have seen how the sausage is made." I remember discovering this phenomenon too coming up from a underprivileged background (to use a common term). I had great appreciation for recognizing this phenomenon reading a forward to some homeschooling book. You might appreciate this blurb too... "The Roman writer Tacitus said, "Omne ignotum, pro magnifico," which translates roughly, "Everything unknown is taken for wonderful." Think about it. Somehow we humans have this complex to assume great ideal things when ignorant of them. I've been pondering this for the past 10 months or so.
- vidarh 9y ago
  I use to apply that to get ideas: Avoid learning how something works at first. Study outside factors. E.g. look at screenshots of an application. Try to imagine how it works. Only learn how it actually works after that. I started doing that after realizing that I used to do this with software I saw in magazines as a child, and then get disappointed when I got the actual software: When you just look at the surface, it's easy to infer a lot of qualities that are not there, and be entirely unaware of the shortcomings.

rconti 9y ago

My sister's a Yale Ph.D who has taught in the SUNY system and other public schools and has really gotten a lot of out teaching these student populations, and finds them far more impressive than Ivy League students. Hard working, many of them first-generation college students, often working full time jobs and supporting families, all with minimal complaints. They're paying their bills and they're expecting ROI on that tuition -- and put in the corresponding amount of work on their studies.

heedlessly2 9y ago

plus all the Claremont colleges are in LA too