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I have a model 3 and it basically feels like the iPhone of cars. Financial issues could take them down, but you'd have to be a fool to bet against them. Compar

by gfodor 9y ago

I have a model 3 and it basically feels like the iPhone of cars. Financial issues could take them down, but you'd have to be a fool to bet against them. Comparing the model 3 to other electric vehicles reminds me of when people were comparing the iPod to other MP3 players based upon tech specs. At this stage, the electric nature of the car just bolsters the design and UX of it. Comparing it to other EVs because they happen to share the same type of motors is stupid. They should be comparing the Model 3 to high end luxury combustion vehicles because from my vantage point you're getting that kind of driving experience, better even, for half the price. The only place where the electric nature of the car creeps into your life in a negative way is when you consider long trips. And even then, the impact is minimal because of the supercharger network. (You are going to stop regularly on long trips for breaks anyhow, so just charge the car.) Beyond that, the only way the electric nature of the car impacts your life is beneficial -- no more trips to gas stations and less cost of ownership. At some point you stop even making the comparison because it's just a plain better ownership experience so you don't think about it anymore.

BoorishBears 9y ago
Out of curiosity, what’s a car you had before the Model 3 that you’d compare as the “MP3 player”, and is it a recent car? I ask because the Model S can’t compare with the S Class or 7 series on comfort and luxury, yet you’re saying the model 3 should be compared
- gfodor 9y ago
  I've never owned but have been in a relatively recent S class. It's personal but the 3 is basically a pretty pure distilled car. If you hate buttons and like symmetry and simplicity they basically took the car to what feels like the logical extreme. Reminiscent of Apple it's a design that shows they agonized over every button and additional degree of freedom for the user. There is no dashboard, no key, the whole car is controlled through the center console. The only buttons are entirely flush with the surfaces they are on. They don't even have door release handles on the inside the door pops open when you grab and depress the button flush on the handlebar to exit. Rip the steering wheel out and there is no longer a clear driver's seat just two symmetric front passengers. I find the design refreshing enough and the torque of the engine responsive enough (with no transmission pullback) to say it outweighs other potential creature comforts on a feature level. My last car was a BRZ and I don't miss it too much :)
  - BoorishBears 9y ago
    ... going from a BRZ to a Model 3 would give someone a little bit of bias. All the things you described are very subjective. It's not "pure" it's barebones. It's not "distilled" it's optimized for cost savings in a way that would insult the average luxury car driver. A mid-range luxury car these days often comes with a DCT or a very advanced non-DCT transmission that's capable of mind blowingly quick shifts and creamy smooth power delivery. This is all coming from a guy who had a first month reservation for a Model 3 and went for a Volt instead after some hard thinking and a few... Tesla antics... I disagreed with, so it's not like I'm one of the people who thinks EVs "can't be enthusiast cars" like some people. I feel like people are overstating what a change in drivetrains will do to car manufacturers. It's true this drivetrain adds requirements for space for batteries and infrastructure for charging, but car making will still be car making (ironically, as Tesla has shown with it's production issues). My money is on Tesla becoming the next Porsche as far as volume and market. That's not a bad place to be, but it's not where the market has priced them at.
    - gfodor 9y ago
      Yeah that's why I said it's personal. I feel the design of the car is extremely forward looking and was primarily driven by good taste not cost constraints. I hate to keep making the comparisons but it reminds me of Apple ripping out all but essential components -- easy to see through the lens of costs in the short term but in the long term provides freedom to take the design further in the next iteration. The 3 represents a foundational design that transitions elegantly to autonomous control (imho) and will provide the vantage point Tesla needs to design their first from-the-ground up autocar.
      - BoorishBears 9y ago
        The problem for me is it feels like the market (and Tesla to an extent) has jumped the gun. Tesla hasn't demonstrated enough self-driving progress (and imo, no one has yet) to justify the car's design to me, nor being a company with a 54 billion dollar market cap. It's one thing if FSD was just on the horizon, but there are an incredible number of very hard problems to solve before we get there. Yet Tesla is designing a car that requires FSD for justification of it's interior and charging for FSD as a feature.
nawitus 9y ago
>They should be comparing the Model 3 to high end luxury combustion vehicles because from my vantage point you're getting that kind of driving experience, better even, for half the price. The Model 3 can't compare to high end luxury combustion vehicles.

by gfodor 9y ago

BoorishBears 9y ago

Out of curiosity, what’s a car you had before the Model 3 that you’d compare as the “MP3 player”, and is it a recent car? I ask because the Model S can’t compare with the S Class or 7 series on comfort and luxury, yet you’re saying the model 3 should be compared

gfodor 9y ago
I've never owned but have been in a relatively recent S class. It's personal but the 3 is basically a pretty pure distilled car. If you hate buttons and like symmetry and simplicity they basically took the car to what feels like the logical extreme. Reminiscent of Apple it's a design that shows they agonized over every button and additional degree of freedom for the user. There is no dashboard, no key, the whole car is controlled through the center console. The only buttons are entirely flush with the surfaces they are on. They don't even have door release handles on the inside the door pops open when you grab and depress the button flush on the handlebar to exit. Rip the steering wheel out and there is no longer a clear driver's seat just two symmetric front passengers. I find the design refreshing enough and the torque of the engine responsive enough (with no transmission pullback) to say it outweighs other potential creature comforts on a feature level. My last car was a BRZ and I don't miss it too much :)
- BoorishBears 9y ago
  ... going from a BRZ to a Model 3 would give someone a little bit of bias. All the things you described are very subjective. It's not "pure" it's barebones. It's not "distilled" it's optimized for cost savings in a way that would insult the average luxury car driver. A mid-range luxury car these days often comes with a DCT or a very advanced non-DCT transmission that's capable of mind blowingly quick shifts and creamy smooth power delivery. This is all coming from a guy who had a first month reservation for a Model 3 and went for a Volt instead after some hard thinking and a few... Tesla antics... I disagreed with, so it's not like I'm one of the people who thinks EVs "can't be enthusiast cars" like some people. I feel like people are overstating what a change in drivetrains will do to car manufacturers. It's true this drivetrain adds requirements for space for batteries and infrastructure for charging, but car making will still be car making (ironically, as Tesla has shown with it's production issues). My money is on Tesla becoming the next Porsche as far as volume and market. That's not a bad place to be, but it's not where the market has priced them at.
  - gfodor 9y ago
    Yeah that's why I said it's personal. I feel the design of the car is extremely forward looking and was primarily driven by good taste not cost constraints. I hate to keep making the comparisons but it reminds me of Apple ripping out all but essential components -- easy to see through the lens of costs in the short term but in the long term provides freedom to take the design further in the next iteration. The 3 represents a foundational design that transitions elegantly to autonomous control (imho) and will provide the vantage point Tesla needs to design their first from-the-ground up autocar.
    - BoorishBears 9y ago
      The problem for me is it feels like the market (and Tesla to an extent) has jumped the gun. Tesla hasn't demonstrated enough self-driving progress (and imo, no one has yet) to justify the car's design to me, nor being a company with a 54 billion dollar market cap. It's one thing if FSD was just on the horizon, but there are an incredible number of very hard problems to solve before we get there. Yet Tesla is designing a car that requires FSD for justification of it's interior and charging for FSD as a feature.

nawitus 9y ago

>They should be comparing the Model 3 to high end luxury combustion vehicles because from my vantage point you're getting that kind of driving experience, better even, for half the price. The Model 3 can't compare to high end luxury combustion vehicles.