5 ms·

Read up on BPA, drinking from plastic bottles and other endocrine disruptors we still allow in our food supply. As a side note, a lot of people think more quant

by Knufen 9y ago

Read up on BPA, drinking from plastic bottles and other endocrine disruptors we still allow in our food supply. As a side note, a lot of people think more quantity = more poisonous. This is not always the case as a small amount can mimic a hormone wrecking our hormone levels over time.

alexandercrohde 9y ago
BPA and other xenoestrogens scare me the most. Men's sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last 30 years, nobody knows why, but the estrogens in our products/water/air aren't out of the question. It's scary how little it scares everyone else.
- devocracy 9y ago
  With an ever expanding world population, possibly on the verge of unsustainable, would a plummeting birth rate necessary be a bad thing? Sure it would mean redesigning how we see the world (the retirement and economic models), but we can either tackle it now or when it's forced upon us.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    Well if the only effect was a plummeting birth rate, then maybe it wouldn't be bad, but it's also been testosterone levels that have dropped considerably[1], which according to that site "[decreased testosterone] is often associated with diabetes, abdominal obesity, sexual dysfunction, depression and other adverse conditions." There have also been increases in those who identify as LGBT[2]. Such massive increases in younger generations can't be explained away by cultural changes IMO. I don't think it's a coincidence that at the same time that exposure to hormonal disruptors has increased, changes in gender and drops in testosterone have been found. [1] https://www.healio.com/endocrinology/hormone-therapy/news/print/endocrine-today/%7Bac23497d-f1ed-4278-bbd2-92bb1e552e3a%7D/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed https://www.healio.com/endocrinology/hormone-therapy/news/pr... [2] http://news.gallup.com/poll/201731/lgbt-identification-rises.aspx http://news.gallup.com/poll/201731/lgbt-identification-rises...
    - alexandercrohde 9y ago
      Though this topic is incredibly sensitive, it needs to be considered. On a somewhat related note, boys who are prenatally exposed DES (a strong estrogen) while pregnant are significantly more likely to be transgender. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol [See Des Sons]
    - lsc 9y ago
      My understanding is that medically speaking, increasing your testosterone levels is something you can do fairly easy, compared, say, to dealing with the cognitive impairment caused by heavy metal poisoning.
    - rapind 9y ago
      Are you sure it couldn't be explained by cultural changes? Perhaps the numbers were always there, but higher cultural tolerance has simply brought more out of the closet? At the very least I would expect that to be a contributing factor. I remember reading about how the increase in mental illness could just be that we are better at diagnosing and recognizing them (and lazy doctors who would rather just prescribe something for your "depression").
      - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
        No I'm not sure, nor is anyone. But having 1.4% of boomers and 7.3% of millennials identifying as LGBT is a _massive_ difference. Homosexuality is something that by all indications causes incredible mental anguish by suppressing, and from what we understand doesn't really change over a lifetime. Wouldn't we see a massively large number of older people coming out of the closet? Would it really be surprising if endocrine disruptors could have such a massive impact?
        rapind 9y ago
        I'm not married to either reason, but I'm just feeling very skeptical about your assumption. A) I don't think we would see a massive number of older people coming out of the closet, because this culture change is generational. Most of your peers aren't going to change their minds just because a younger generation is more tolerant. It's the same reason my 100 year old (really!) grandmother may still use the occasional racial slur. I definitely think there's more peer friction for an older LBGT individual than a younger one. B) I don't think these numbers are actually out of line with the impact of cultural change. C) Base on your linked datas, religion may also be a factor. Given that religion is on the decline in the US, especially among millennials, I wouldn't rule that out as a factor either. It's probably a combination of factors as usual, and maybe endocrine disruptors is one of them.
- mmagin 9y ago
  Also we vastly increased our intake of things like high-fructose corn syrup and sitting on our asses all day leading to "metabolic syndrome", which might play a role.
- lsc 9y ago
  >Men's sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last 30 years, nobody knows why, but the estrogens in our products/water/air aren't out of the question. I... guess I don't really see this as nearly as scary as "impaired mental development in children" or "increased cancer rates for everyone" - I mean, sure, if you can't have children after medical intervention, that's a problem; but I'm not sure that requiring medical intervention to have a child is in and of itself a particularly bad thing. it's not something you want to do by accident, and raising a child is incredibly expensive; adding a bit to the up-front cost seems a lot less scary than adding to the costs down the line (I mean, through the development problems caused by lead.)
throwaway5752 9y ago
https://newrepublic.com/article/86339/toxins-plastic-shampoo-panic https://newrepublic.com/article/86339/toxins-plastic-shampoo... is interesting.
- owly 9y ago
  Thanks for sharing, this should be required reading.
  - throwaway5752 9y ago
    You're kind to say that, but I literally just meant it was interesting. I don't know how reliable it is. I search for things debunking the endocrine disruptor claim and found it, and it didn't ring any credibility alarm bells.
- thfaway 9y ago
  From that article... >measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, linked, by a sketchy and quickly refuted study, to autism. The supposed connection made a bigger impression than the refutation, and, while I didn’t actually know anyone who failed to get their children immunized for MMR, plenty of parents did refuse the shot; According to Andrew Wakefield, what he suggested was just that people use single, separate shots instead of the cocktail MMR vaccine. And then people started switching to single shots and sale of MMR dropped, which made the government (or someone forced them as he says) stopping the import of single vaccines and thereby depriving people of that option...According to him, then and only then did the vaccination rates dropped.
  - throwaway5752 9y ago
    Andrew Wakefield is not a credible source on one single thing. Not only do you not have a source, I would want a secondary corroborating reliable source.
    - thfaway 9y ago
      Ok. >5. The UK had a single dose measles vaccine program since 1967. The single rubella and mumps vaccines became available in the early seventies. The MMR vaccine was introduced in 1988. When parents started requesting the monovalent vaccines in increasing numbers, the DOH decided in August 1998 to withdraw their license. Those who could afford it crossed the Channel to get their children vaccinated or purchased the single vaccines at private clinics. http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/mmr-and-single-measles-mumps-and-rubella-vaccines-real-facts http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/mmr-and-single-... Also found this personal blog where a personal account of the same can be read. https://jwdwrites.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/mmr-is-anyone-telling-the-truth/ https://jwdwrites.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/mmr-is-anyone-tel... But it is just a random page on the internet...

by Knufen 9y ago

alexandercrohde 9y ago

BPA and other xenoestrogens scare me the most. Men's sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last 30 years, nobody knows why, but the estrogens in our products/water/air aren't out of the question. It's scary how little it scares everyone else.

devocracy 9y ago
With an ever expanding world population, possibly on the verge of unsustainable, would a plummeting birth rate necessary be a bad thing? Sure it would mean redesigning how we see the world (the retirement and economic models), but we can either tackle it now or when it's forced upon us.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  Well if the only effect was a plummeting birth rate, then maybe it wouldn't be bad, but it's also been testosterone levels that have dropped considerably[1], which according to that site "[decreased testosterone] is often associated with diabetes, abdominal obesity, sexual dysfunction, depression and other adverse conditions." There have also been increases in those who identify as LGBT[2]. Such massive increases in younger generations can't be explained away by cultural changes IMO. I don't think it's a coincidence that at the same time that exposure to hormonal disruptors has increased, changes in gender and drops in testosterone have been found. [1] https://www.healio.com/endocrinology/hormone-therapy/news/print/endocrine-today/%7Bac23497d-f1ed-4278-bbd2-92bb1e552e3a%7D/generational-decline-in-testosterone-levels-observed https://www.healio.com/endocrinology/hormone-therapy/news/pr... [2] http://news.gallup.com/poll/201731/lgbt-identification-rises.aspx http://news.gallup.com/poll/201731/lgbt-identification-rises...
  - alexandercrohde 9y ago
    Though this topic is incredibly sensitive, it needs to be considered. On a somewhat related note, boys who are prenatally exposed DES (a strong estrogen) while pregnant are significantly more likely to be transgender. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diethylstilbestrol [See Des Sons]
  - lsc 9y ago
    My understanding is that medically speaking, increasing your testosterone levels is something you can do fairly easy, compared, say, to dealing with the cognitive impairment caused by heavy metal poisoning.
  - rapind 9y ago
    Are you sure it couldn't be explained by cultural changes? Perhaps the numbers were always there, but higher cultural tolerance has simply brought more out of the closet? At the very least I would expect that to be a contributing factor. I remember reading about how the increase in mental illness could just be that we are better at diagnosing and recognizing them (and lazy doctors who would rather just prescribe something for your "depression").
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      No I'm not sure, nor is anyone. But having 1.4% of boomers and 7.3% of millennials identifying as LGBT is a _massive_ difference. Homosexuality is something that by all indications causes incredible mental anguish by suppressing, and from what we understand doesn't really change over a lifetime. Wouldn't we see a massively large number of older people coming out of the closet? Would it really be surprising if endocrine disruptors could have such a massive impact?
      - rapind 9y ago
        I'm not married to either reason, but I'm just feeling very skeptical about your assumption. A) I don't think we would see a massive number of older people coming out of the closet, because this culture change is generational. Most of your peers aren't going to change their minds just because a younger generation is more tolerant. It's the same reason my 100 year old (really!) grandmother may still use the occasional racial slur. I definitely think there's more peer friction for an older LBGT individual than a younger one. B) I don't think these numbers are actually out of line with the impact of cultural change. C) Base on your linked datas, religion may also be a factor. Given that religion is on the decline in the US, especially among millennials, I wouldn't rule that out as a factor either. It's probably a combination of factors as usual, and maybe endocrine disruptors is one of them.
mmagin 9y ago
Also we vastly increased our intake of things like high-fructose corn syrup and sitting on our asses all day leading to "metabolic syndrome", which might play a role.
lsc 9y ago
>Men's sperm counts have gone down 50% in the last 30 years, nobody knows why, but the estrogens in our products/water/air aren't out of the question. I... guess I don't really see this as nearly as scary as "impaired mental development in children" or "increased cancer rates for everyone" - I mean, sure, if you can't have children after medical intervention, that's a problem; but I'm not sure that requiring medical intervention to have a child is in and of itself a particularly bad thing. it's not something you want to do by accident, and raising a child is incredibly expensive; adding a bit to the up-front cost seems a lot less scary than adding to the costs down the line (I mean, through the development problems caused by lead.)

throwaway5752 9y ago

https://newrepublic.com/article/86339/toxins-plastic-shampoo-panic https://newrepublic.com/article/86339/toxins-plastic-shampoo... is interesting.

owly 9y ago
Thanks for sharing, this should be required reading.
- throwaway5752 9y ago
  You're kind to say that, but I literally just meant it was interesting. I don't know how reliable it is. I search for things debunking the endocrine disruptor claim and found it, and it didn't ring any credibility alarm bells.
thfaway 9y ago
From that article... >measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, linked, by a sketchy and quickly refuted study, to autism. The supposed connection made a bigger impression than the refutation, and, while I didn’t actually know anyone who failed to get their children immunized for MMR, plenty of parents did refuse the shot; According to Andrew Wakefield, what he suggested was just that people use single, separate shots instead of the cocktail MMR vaccine. And then people started switching to single shots and sale of MMR dropped, which made the government (or someone forced them as he says) stopping the import of single vaccines and thereby depriving people of that option...According to him, then and only then did the vaccination rates dropped.
- throwaway5752 9y ago
  Andrew Wakefield is not a credible source on one single thing. Not only do you not have a source, I would want a secondary corroborating reliable source.
  - thfaway 9y ago
    Ok. >5. The UK had a single dose measles vaccine program since 1967. The single rubella and mumps vaccines became available in the early seventies. The MMR vaccine was introduced in 1988. When parents started requesting the monovalent vaccines in increasing numbers, the DOH decided in August 1998 to withdraw their license. Those who could afford it crossed the Channel to get their children vaccinated or purchased the single vaccines at private clinics. http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/mmr-and-single-measles-mumps-and-rubella-vaccines-real-facts http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/mmr-and-single-... Also found this personal blog where a personal account of the same can be read. https://jwdwrites.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/mmr-is-anyone-telling-the-truth/ https://jwdwrites.wordpress.com/2013/04/14/mmr-is-anyone-tel... But it is just a random page on the internet...