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> It's pretty clear. You are selling in the UK so the revenue would be taxed there. It's not clear at all. Your warehouse is in the states (or where ever) and

> It's pretty clear. You are selling in the UK so the revenue would be taxed there. It's not clear at all. Your warehouse is in the states (or where ever) and the goods are never in the UK. For all cross-border shipments you have to pay customs tax. Just because somebody saw your product on a co.uk website you have to pay the UK for what exactly? And as you brought up, there are customs taxes as well as income taxes. Why are these artificial delineations good for business?

jackvalentine 9y ago
What is the business purpose of using amazon.co.uk rather than Amazon US if you're warehousing in the US and shipping worldwide?
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  I can think of a few off the top of my head. Bouncycastle (a crypto library) is hosted in Australia because I think the US crypt laws want to ban the export (download) of military grade munitions. Great Gatsby (the novel) is free to download if hosted in Australia. In the US, the copyright laws forbid the download of Great Gatsby mainly because of Disney. Ever wonder why Mickey Mouse isn't in public domain? Also, if your product that you can source cheaper over in the US is only popular in England, you would of course go to England's Amazon and eBay sites to sell it. For instance, umbrellas won't sell as well in Arizona as they would in England.
  - lovich 9y ago
    Is hosting not analogous to warehouseing? I mean if you warehouse pot in the us and sell in Amsterdam you're still violating local laws based on where your warehouse is and if you host the great Gatsby in the us to deliver to Australia then you're violating local laws where you are hosting too. You can reverse it and have pot in the Netherlands or great Gatsby in Australia to send to the US, but weve had the term smuggling to cover that situation as well
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      > Is hosting not analogous to warehouseing? It's not clear what is and what is not being hosted. Let's take Google for an example. Google has datacenters all over the world. You could make a case that Gmail makes no money on its own, that all the money comes from ads. Fine, host all the servers that serve Gmail on its own in a local country to reduce latency, and serve all ads from a server in a tax haven. Who do you tax? The tax haven has no taxes, and Gmail itself is a net expense, as you have to pay for labor, servers, power, and bandwidth. > You can reverse it and have pot in the Netherlands or great Gatsby in Australia to send to the US, but weve had the term smuggling to cover that situation as well. That is incorrect. You can download Great Gatsby instantly in the US right now[0]. Project Gutenberg prevents German users from downloading books[1]. All these extra laws are doing is making it so new companies have more hoops to jump through and large existing companies have the lawyers and money to figure out how to skirt the rules. [0] http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200041.txt http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200041.txt Don't download if you're in the states. [1] https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/project-gutenberg-blocks-german-users-from-downloading-ebooks https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/project-gutenberg-b...
  - jackvalentine 9y ago
    So if you're using the legal or perceptional advantages of trading "out" of Australia (or the UK, or wherever)... why shouldn't you be subject to laws, including tax laws, there?
    - jimmywanger 9y ago
      That is what the VAT, customs, and personal income tax is for. It's relatively easy to keep track of just where money comes from for a purchase, and where stuff is delivered. If you actually reside there and use the services that's one thing - and you can tax the purchase for the purchaser. Taxing sources is far harder, and virtually impossible for virtual goods. Should we tax CNDs for a percentage of Netflix and Amazon traffic they serve? Or should companies figure out exactly what is or is not cached in a particular country to find their tax rates?
      - jackvalentine 9y ago
        I genuinely don’t see how you find this so confusing and you’re using wildly disparate examples that don’t all make the same point. I’m not interested in taking part in this outrage feat.
        jimmywanger 9y ago
        I see you're not interested in having discourse. I genuinely don't see how you don't find this confusing. Is just having a co.uk web address a reason to pay taxes there? There are many locations associated with you these days. The one you're living in, the one your business is in, the one where your goods are manufactured in, the one you store the goods, the one your website is hosted in, and the one that you declare tax residency. Please explain to me what proportion of your taxes should go to each one.
        jackvalentine 9y ago
        > . Is just having a co.uk web address a reason to pay taxes there? That wasn't your example - your example was selling using the amazon.co.uk market. You can't even keep your own examples straight, no wonder you're confused.
sjg007 9y ago
I don't think you understand how international commerce actually works. If your warehouse is in the USA and someone from the UK orders from you, you can ship the product to them tax free but they will pay an import duty on that item based on the UK value of the item. Google has to pay tax on the advertisement to the UK buyer. This is because the revenue (aka the user clicking on the ad to buy your widget) was advertised in the UK and thus generated revenue in the UK. That's what the 3% tax is on. It doesn't matter if you hosted the ad in the USA or Thailand or on the space station. All that matters is that the consumer "purchased" the ad. The advertiser pays google the ad fee and google pays the state the tax. Simple and straightforward.
- jimmywanger 9y ago
  You're not counting ppv ads. If you click on a webpage, and the advertisers get some money from you clicking on the link, you're going to get taxed even though you did not really do anything? Please explain that to me. How you can be forced into being a tax liability for a company.

jackvalentine 9y ago

What is the business purpose of using amazon.co.uk rather than Amazon US if you're warehousing in the US and shipping worldwide?

jimmywanger 9y ago
I can think of a few off the top of my head. Bouncycastle (a crypto library) is hosted in Australia because I think the US crypt laws want to ban the export (download) of military grade munitions. Great Gatsby (the novel) is free to download if hosted in Australia. In the US, the copyright laws forbid the download of Great Gatsby mainly because of Disney. Ever wonder why Mickey Mouse isn't in public domain? Also, if your product that you can source cheaper over in the US is only popular in England, you would of course go to England's Amazon and eBay sites to sell it. For instance, umbrellas won't sell as well in Arizona as they would in England.
- lovich 9y ago
  Is hosting not analogous to warehouseing? I mean if you warehouse pot in the us and sell in Amsterdam you're still violating local laws based on where your warehouse is and if you host the great Gatsby in the us to deliver to Australia then you're violating local laws where you are hosting too. You can reverse it and have pot in the Netherlands or great Gatsby in Australia to send to the US, but weve had the term smuggling to cover that situation as well
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    > Is hosting not analogous to warehouseing? It's not clear what is and what is not being hosted. Let's take Google for an example. Google has datacenters all over the world. You could make a case that Gmail makes no money on its own, that all the money comes from ads. Fine, host all the servers that serve Gmail on its own in a local country to reduce latency, and serve all ads from a server in a tax haven. Who do you tax? The tax haven has no taxes, and Gmail itself is a net expense, as you have to pay for labor, servers, power, and bandwidth. > You can reverse it and have pot in the Netherlands or great Gatsby in Australia to send to the US, but weve had the term smuggling to cover that situation as well. That is incorrect. You can download Great Gatsby instantly in the US right now[0]. Project Gutenberg prevents German users from downloading books[1]. All these extra laws are doing is making it so new companies have more hoops to jump through and large existing companies have the lawyers and money to figure out how to skirt the rules. [0] http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200041.txt http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200041.txt Don't download if you're in the states. [1] https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/project-gutenberg-blocks-german-users-from-downloading-ebooks https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/project-gutenberg-b...
- jackvalentine 9y ago
  So if you're using the legal or perceptional advantages of trading "out" of Australia (or the UK, or wherever)... why shouldn't you be subject to laws, including tax laws, there?
  - jimmywanger 9y ago
    That is what the VAT, customs, and personal income tax is for. It's relatively easy to keep track of just where money comes from for a purchase, and where stuff is delivered. If you actually reside there and use the services that's one thing - and you can tax the purchase for the purchaser. Taxing sources is far harder, and virtually impossible for virtual goods. Should we tax CNDs for a percentage of Netflix and Amazon traffic they serve? Or should companies figure out exactly what is or is not cached in a particular country to find their tax rates?
    - jackvalentine 9y ago
      I genuinely don’t see how you find this so confusing and you’re using wildly disparate examples that don’t all make the same point. I’m not interested in taking part in this outrage feat.
      - jimmywanger 9y ago
        I see you're not interested in having discourse. I genuinely don't see how you don't find this confusing. Is just having a co.uk web address a reason to pay taxes there? There are many locations associated with you these days. The one you're living in, the one your business is in, the one where your goods are manufactured in, the one you store the goods, the one your website is hosted in, and the one that you declare tax residency. Please explain to me what proportion of your taxes should go to each one.
        jackvalentine 9y ago
        > . Is just having a co.uk web address a reason to pay taxes there? That wasn't your example - your example was selling using the amazon.co.uk market. You can't even keep your own examples straight, no wonder you're confused.

sjg007 9y ago

I don't think you understand how international commerce actually works. If your warehouse is in the USA and someone from the UK orders from you, you can ship the product to them tax free but they will pay an import duty on that item based on the UK value of the item. Google has to pay tax on the advertisement to the UK buyer. This is because the revenue (aka the user clicking on the ad to buy your widget) was advertised in the UK and thus generated revenue in the UK. That's what the 3% tax is on. It doesn't matter if you hosted the ad in the USA or Thailand or on the space station. All that matters is that the consumer "purchased" the ad. The advertiser pays google the ad fee and google pays the state the tax. Simple and straightforward.

jimmywanger 9y ago
You're not counting ppv ads. If you click on a webpage, and the advertisers get some money from you clicking on the link, you're going to get taxed even though you did not really do anything? Please explain that to me. How you can be forced into being a tax liability for a company.