4 ms·

I completely agree with the desire to be able to use Unix As It Should Be. That said I am a little envious when I read that I can send("bunch of shit") and rec

I completely agree with the desire to be able to use Unix As It Should Be. That said I am a little envious when I read that I can send("bunch of shit") and receive() and call it a day. I wouldn't call that premature optimization, nothing is going to beat raw sockets and domain specific knowledge. That said, since you brought up AMQP (we use Rabbit, too, I'm a fan) have you seen this?: http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/openamq-dev/2010-March/001598.html http://lists.zeromq.org/pipermail/openamq-dev/2010-March/001...

mahmud 16y ago
First, function level semantics and brevity are not exactly differentiators when most anyone can wrap the socket API with the class/parametric/duck-typed interface of their choice (what is github if not a pile of DWIM wrappers.) See how Twisted did wonders for network programming at the semantic level. Also, I have already stated that it was a powerful tool in the hands of a "capable systems architect". Besides, I am a closet iMatix fan ;-) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1230509 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1230509 All I wanted to point out is that ZeroMQ should not be treated as another "plugin" that people are encouraged to use willy nilly. I would use it in high-performance applications in financial trading, VOIP, scalable game servers, etc. But these are not what most people are working on. Blog posts like these just encourage the ADHD bleeding-edge types to take another stab at their own thighs in the unjustified pursuit of "web scale". And the moment SmashingMag gets a hold of Zero, we will see the most gruesome newbie bloodshed since the battle of WordPress.
- phintjens 16y ago
  Lol. Actually I believe 0MQ (or rather, the principles it embodies) is something all serious developers need to learn. How to do concurrency properly, how to get above TCP sockets, how to design simple APIs, how to do open source properly, etc. It's hard to see that exposure to 0MQ would make anyone a worse developer. As a programmer, using 0MQ is Better than Sex. You can quote me on that. It would be unethical to deny such fun to anyone. What beginners need, with any new technology, is a set of clear recipes that they can implement without having to invent everything. This was why a books like Stevens' trilogy were so vital to getting TCP out of labs and into the grubby hands of ADHD bleeding-edge types. We're working on that, with books like http://www.zeromq.org/docs:user-guide http://www.zeromq.org/docs:user-guide. That'll grow to cover all of 0MQ eventually.
sustrik 16y ago
Speaking of AMQP/RabbitMQ there's an integration project here: http://github.com/rabbitmq/rmq-0mq http://github.com/rabbitmq/rmq-0mq. The idea is that you can use RabbitMQ as a broker for 0MQ networks.

mahmud 16y ago

First, function level semantics and brevity are not exactly differentiators when most anyone can wrap the socket API with the class/parametric/duck-typed interface of their choice (what is github if not a pile of DWIM wrappers.) See how Twisted did wonders for network programming at the semantic level. Also, I have already stated that it was a powerful tool in the hands of a "capable systems architect". Besides, I am a closet iMatix fan ;-) http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1230509 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1230509 All I wanted to point out is that ZeroMQ should not be treated as another "plugin" that people are encouraged to use willy nilly. I would use it in high-performance applications in financial trading, VOIP, scalable game servers, etc. But these are not what most people are working on. Blog posts like these just encourage the ADHD bleeding-edge types to take another stab at their own thighs in the unjustified pursuit of "web scale". And the moment SmashingMag gets a hold of Zero, we will see the most gruesome newbie bloodshed since the battle of WordPress.

phintjens 16y ago
Lol. Actually I believe 0MQ (or rather, the principles it embodies) is something all serious developers need to learn. How to do concurrency properly, how to get above TCP sockets, how to design simple APIs, how to do open source properly, etc. It's hard to see that exposure to 0MQ would make anyone a worse developer. As a programmer, using 0MQ is Better than Sex. You can quote me on that. It would be unethical to deny such fun to anyone. What beginners need, with any new technology, is a set of clear recipes that they can implement without having to invent everything. This was why a books like Stevens' trilogy were so vital to getting TCP out of labs and into the grubby hands of ADHD bleeding-edge types. We're working on that, with books like http://www.zeromq.org/docs:user-guide http://www.zeromq.org/docs:user-guide. That'll grow to cover all of 0MQ eventually.

sustrik 16y ago

Speaking of AMQP/RabbitMQ there's an integration project here: http://github.com/rabbitmq/rmq-0mq http://github.com/rabbitmq/rmq-0mq. The idea is that you can use RabbitMQ as a broker for 0MQ networks.