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The DSM-IV definition for ADHD requires "clinically significant impairment in social, academic or occupational environments". This was (somewhat controversiall

The DSM-IV definition for ADHD requires "clinically significant impairment in social, academic or occupational environments". This was (somewhat controversially) softened to "clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic, or occupational functioning" in DSM-V (2013).

mistercow 9y ago
Right: impairment, interference, and reduced quality. Not inability to function.
- wpietri 9y ago
  For sure. And I think it's important to note that in a disorder characterized by a mismatch between a person and their environment, changing the environment can apparently make the disorder disappear. For example, imagine a musician with ADHD. They might struggle a good deal in school, which requires doing a lot of to-them-boring stuff. But once they're out of school, they might be perfectly good at earning a living, because the environment they create is suited to their approach to the world. I was talking just recently with a software developer with ADHD. They preferred a pair programming environment because that was much more engaging to them than solo coding.
- wgjordan 9y ago
  'Inability to function' is a straw man, 'requires assistance' was what you claimed was nowhere implied by the definition of a mental disorder. One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. By definition (DSM-IV Criterion D 'clinically significant impairment'), an ADHD diagnosis is appropriate only when the symptoms cause severe enough impairment that require assistance (e.g., 'clinical intervention') to function. [1] See e.g., "Symptoms Versus Impairment: The Case for Respecting DSM-IV’s Criterion D", http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893.7909&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893...
  - mistercow 9y ago
    Well, "incapable of working in a modern corporation" was the original claim. > One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. I don't see how your source backs this statement up. Yes, it's possible to have many symptoms but low impairment, but your premise that "capable of coping on one's own" is the same as "low impairment" is simply false.

mistercow 9y ago

Right: impairment, interference, and reduced quality. Not inability to function.

wpietri 9y ago
For sure. And I think it's important to note that in a disorder characterized by a mismatch between a person and their environment, changing the environment can apparently make the disorder disappear. For example, imagine a musician with ADHD. They might struggle a good deal in school, which requires doing a lot of to-them-boring stuff. But once they're out of school, they might be perfectly good at earning a living, because the environment they create is suited to their approach to the world. I was talking just recently with a software developer with ADHD. They preferred a pair programming environment because that was much more engaging to them than solo coding.
wgjordan 9y ago
'Inability to function' is a straw man, 'requires assistance' was what you claimed was nowhere implied by the definition of a mental disorder. One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. By definition (DSM-IV Criterion D 'clinically significant impairment'), an ADHD diagnosis is appropriate only when the symptoms cause severe enough impairment that require assistance (e.g., 'clinical intervention') to function. [1] See e.g., "Symptoms Versus Impairment: The Case for Respecting DSM-IV’s Criterion D", http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893.7909&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893...
- mistercow 9y ago
  Well, "incapable of working in a modern corporation" was the original claim. > One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. I don't see how your source backs this statement up. Yes, it's possible to have many symptoms but low impairment, but your premise that "capable of coping on one's own" is the same as "low impairment" is simply false.