5 ms·

A US university is tracking students’ locations to predict future dropouts

63 points by kushti 9y ago

nickparker 9y ago
This article is a little unclear, and the title arguably exaggerated. They're actually tracking where students swipe their student ID cards. Which, yes, is a form of location tracking. They don't have any idea where students are going off campus.
- gnarbarian 9y ago
  not necessarily true. Many businesses may provide college discounts and use a PoS type device to verify the validity of the id. (this is how it works here at UAA to some extent)
- gh02t 9y ago
  > They also have an embedded sensor that can be used to track geographic history whenever the card is swiped. This almost makes it sound like the card keeps a log of where it is used internally. If that is the case then it could be used to track off campus activity, as a lot of colleges let you link your student ID so that it can be used as a debit card (mine did). The article is kinda vague though, so who knows. If it is the case that it's tracking all purchases, I hope it's optional or at least that students are properly informed because that's kinda creepy.
  - crowbahr 9y ago
    It's ID cards, so it's going to have a chip or sensor that isn't powered: it'll simply grab current geolocation on swipe. It also wouldn't be usable off campus for anything the school wasn't providing. Also since it's ID cards: when swiped the machine would be communicating back to a central server to get balance (and thus tracking) OR they're pulling it off of the card's state at the machines directly, then writing to the card where it was used and then pulling all that data when they recharge the cards. 3rd potential option being reading each machine that interacted with the cards and collating but I see that as less likely, given the wording of the article. Any way you look at it: it's something credit card companies already do.
gnarbarian 9y ago
Pretty damn Orwellian, but it certainly shows how some aspects of university education are broken for many people. Socially integrating yourself with other successful people in your classes and degree program will dramatically increase your chances of success. This does not come naturally to many people. Ways to improve this include: * requiring students to live in dorms with students taking the same classes. * mandatory weekly study sessions for every class * industry partnerships to get students internships with real world experience during the summer. IMO these guys[0] are on the right track and I wish programs like that were available to more people. [0] http://www.ansep.net/ http://www.ansep.net/
- hartator 9y ago
  > requiring students to live in dorms with students taking the same classes. I think that's even more Orwellian. It does sound like just a jail.
  - gnarbarian 9y ago
    Sure, I think it should be opt-in. At ANSEP if you opt in you get a full ride plus internships during the summer. Totally worth it if your main goal in college is to succeed scholastically, rather than party all the time and get distracted by roommates who are taking different classes with different study needs and might be trying to play beer pong and wrestle till 3am the night before your midterm.
    - crooked-v 9y ago
      You seem to be presuming that the only alternative to a dorm is a fraternity house.
      - gnarbarian 9y ago
        I did the dorm thing, was impossible to study there. My point is if you can set people up for success through a program like that, it should at least be an option to people.
lettergram 9y ago
It's actually amazing how I can predict this exceedingly well just from watching students grades compared to the average. Did a test with it using my website: https://easy-a.net https://easy-a.net I basically can predict students future semester grades, hours spent and what not.
- JonDav 9y ago
  Same here, based on time on campus, time in labs/study areas I am able to predict pretty accurately who will succeed. Of course there are always outliers.
thesumofall 9y ago
So, retention rates improved by not even 3pp and they take that as proof that the program worked? Isn’t it much more likely that the increase is driven by the bigger attention the retention topic got by the administration as well as the increase in counseling, etc.? And how much damage is done by approaching students and telling them that their recent behavior indicates they might drop out soon?
- JonDav 9y ago
  Hopefully they take a more positive approach. By identifying retention issues advisors/educators can approach the students in trouble and offer support and services. Once they leave it is much harder to get them to return and you can sometimes run into FERPA issues trying to get them to return.
OrganicMSG 9y ago
The takeaway is that if you give a load of academics a database, they are like children left unattended with a running chocolate fountain and a sign saying "no fingers".
rdiddly 9y ago
And actually bragging about it. Surprised to read that this came from a university press release and not a whistleblower, in-depth undercover investigation, embarrassing court case or the like. Apparently we've finally reached the dystopia where surveillance is completely normalized.
lazyasciiart 9y ago
This article, and most of the discussion here, appears to be conflating two things. 1. The University of Arizona tries to predict which students are at risk of dropping out using a bunch of data about them, and then offers some extra support to these students. They have been doing this for four years and have improved their retention rate about 3% in the last year. 2. A researcher at the University of Arizona has been experimenting with using location tracking to predict which students will drop out. She has found that using this data allows her to make more accurate predictions than the ones that the university currently uses. She hopes that they will one day start using her data/methods.
lvs 9y ago
> At the end of the day, universities are businesses trying to retain customers. This matter-of-fact claim -- and the mindset it engenders -- encapsulates perhaps the vast majority of what's gone wrong in higher education in the past two decades or so.

63 points by kushti 9y ago

This article is a little unclear, and the title arguably exaggerated. They're actually tracking where students swipe their student ID cards. Which, yes, is a form of location tracking. They don't have any idea where students are going off campus.

gnarbarian 9y ago
not necessarily true. Many businesses may provide college discounts and use a PoS type device to verify the validity of the id. (this is how it works here at UAA to some extent)
gh02t 9y ago
> They also have an embedded sensor that can be used to track geographic history whenever the card is swiped. This almost makes it sound like the card keeps a log of where it is used internally. If that is the case then it could be used to track off campus activity, as a lot of colleges let you link your student ID so that it can be used as a debit card (mine did). The article is kinda vague though, so who knows. If it is the case that it's tracking all purchases, I hope it's optional or at least that students are properly informed because that's kinda creepy.
- crowbahr 9y ago
  It's ID cards, so it's going to have a chip or sensor that isn't powered: it'll simply grab current geolocation on swipe. It also wouldn't be usable off campus for anything the school wasn't providing. Also since it's ID cards: when swiped the machine would be communicating back to a central server to get balance (and thus tracking) OR they're pulling it off of the card's state at the machines directly, then writing to the card where it was used and then pulling all that data when they recharge the cards. 3rd potential option being reading each machine that interacted with the cards and collating but I see that as less likely, given the wording of the article. Any way you look at it: it's something credit card companies already do.

gnarbarian 9y ago

Pretty damn Orwellian, but it certainly shows how some aspects of university education are broken for many people. Socially integrating yourself with other successful people in your classes and degree program will dramatically increase your chances of success. This does not come naturally to many people. Ways to improve this include: * requiring students to live in dorms with students taking the same classes. * mandatory weekly study sessions for every class * industry partnerships to get students internships with real world experience during the summer. IMO these guys[0] are on the right track and I wish programs like that were available to more people. [0] http://www.ansep.net/ http://www.ansep.net/

hartator 9y ago
> requiring students to live in dorms with students taking the same classes. I think that's even more Orwellian. It does sound like just a jail.
- gnarbarian 9y ago
  Sure, I think it should be opt-in. At ANSEP if you opt in you get a full ride plus internships during the summer. Totally worth it if your main goal in college is to succeed scholastically, rather than party all the time and get distracted by roommates who are taking different classes with different study needs and might be trying to play beer pong and wrestle till 3am the night before your midterm.
  - crooked-v 9y ago
    You seem to be presuming that the only alternative to a dorm is a fraternity house.
    - gnarbarian 9y ago
      I did the dorm thing, was impossible to study there. My point is if you can set people up for success through a program like that, it should at least be an option to people.

lettergram 9y ago

It's actually amazing how I can predict this exceedingly well just from watching students grades compared to the average. Did a test with it using my website: https://easy-a.net https://easy-a.net I basically can predict students future semester grades, hours spent and what not.

JonDav 9y ago
Same here, based on time on campus, time in labs/study areas I am able to predict pretty accurately who will succeed. Of course there are always outliers.

thesumofall 9y ago

So, retention rates improved by not even 3pp and they take that as proof that the program worked? Isn’t it much more likely that the increase is driven by the bigger attention the retention topic got by the administration as well as the increase in counseling, etc.? And how much damage is done by approaching students and telling them that their recent behavior indicates they might drop out soon?

JonDav 9y ago
Hopefully they take a more positive approach. By identifying retention issues advisors/educators can approach the students in trouble and offer support and services. Once they leave it is much harder to get them to return and you can sometimes run into FERPA issues trying to get them to return.

OrganicMSG 9y ago

The takeaway is that if you give a load of academics a database, they are like children left unattended with a running chocolate fountain and a sign saying "no fingers".

rdiddly 9y ago

And actually bragging about it. Surprised to read that this came from a university press release and not a whistleblower, in-depth undercover investigation, embarrassing court case or the like. Apparently we've finally reached the dystopia where surveillance is completely normalized.

lazyasciiart 9y ago

This article, and most of the discussion here, appears to be conflating two things. 1. The University of Arizona tries to predict which students are at risk of dropping out using a bunch of data about them, and then offers some extra support to these students. They have been doing this for four years and have improved their retention rate about 3% in the last year. 2. A researcher at the University of Arizona has been experimenting with using location tracking to predict which students will drop out. She has found that using this data allows her to make more accurate predictions than the ones that the university currently uses. She hopes that they will one day start using her data/methods.

lvs 9y ago

> At the end of the day, universities are businesses trying to retain customers. This matter-of-fact claim -- and the mindset it engenders -- encapsulates perhaps the vast majority of what's gone wrong in higher education in the past two decades or so.