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>So, being incapable of working in a modern corporation is a... good thing? I'm not on the "ADHD is a good thing" side of this, but the argument you're implyin

>So, being incapable of working in a modern corporation is a... good thing? I'm not on the "ADHD is a good thing" side of this, but the argument you're implying has some serious problems. First of all, who says that people with ADHD are incapable of working in a modern corporation? Secondly, you're examining only one side of what is asserted to be a tradeoff. There are certainly other ways to be successful in life than working at a corporation, and if ADHD provides an advantage on those other paths, then it could clearly be considered a good thing.

falcolas 9y ago
> who says that people with ADHD are incapable of working in a modern corporation ADHD is a disorder whose primary feature is the inability to control concentration. It's a disorder because the feature is strong enough that a person has trouble interacting with society without help. So, someone who is diagnosed with ADHD has trouble interacting with society without help. There is no modern institution which supports an inability to control concentration as a money provider. Paintings need to be completed. Novels need to be completed. Abstract thoughts need to be written down. Any advantage experienced by those with ADHD is also experienced by those who have trouble directing their concentration, but not to a severe enough degree to require assistance interacting with society. I can bet a lot of folks with ADHD would rather live at that point on the spectrum.
- mistercow 9y ago
  There is nothing in the definition of a mental disorder that implies that a person requires assistance to interact with society. You can certainly have ADHD while being capable of coping on your own.
  - wgjordan 9y ago
    The DSM-IV definition for ADHD requires "clinically significant impairment in social, academic or occupational environments". This was (somewhat controversially) softened to "clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic, or occupational functioning" in DSM-V (2013).
    - mistercow 9y ago
      Right: impairment, interference, and reduced quality. Not inability to function.
      - wpietri 9y ago
        For sure. And I think it's important to note that in a disorder characterized by a mismatch between a person and their environment, changing the environment can apparently make the disorder disappear. For example, imagine a musician with ADHD. They might struggle a good deal in school, which requires doing a lot of to-them-boring stuff. But once they're out of school, they might be perfectly good at earning a living, because the environment they create is suited to their approach to the world. I was talking just recently with a software developer with ADHD. They preferred a pair programming environment because that was much more engaging to them than solo coding.
      - wgjordan 9y ago
        'Inability to function' is a straw man, 'requires assistance' was what you claimed was nowhere implied by the definition of a mental disorder. One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. By definition (DSM-IV Criterion D 'clinically significant impairment'), an ADHD diagnosis is appropriate only when the symptoms cause severe enough impairment that require assistance (e.g., 'clinical intervention') to function. [1] See e.g., "Symptoms Versus Impairment: The Case for Respecting DSM-IV’s Criterion D", http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893.7909&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893...
        mistercow 9y ago
        Well, "incapable of working in a modern corporation" was the original claim. > One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. I don't see how your source backs this statement up. Yes, it's possible to have many symptoms but low impairment, but your premise that "capable of coping on one's own" is the same as "low impairment" is simply false.
- pgt 9y ago
  “There is no modern institution which supports an inability to control concentration as a money provider.” Are you sure about that?
- sifoo 9y ago
  That's just not correct. It's an inability to focus on things that are not deemed interesting at the moment, and an inability to pretend otherwise. Give someone with ADHD traits a tricky problem that they believe in solving and you'll have to tear them away from it and force them to eat and sleep until it's solved.
cryoshon 9y ago
idk re: corporation, but look at the studies assessing unemployment rate of ADHD+ people. it's something ridiculously higher than the normal population.
- mistercow 9y ago
  Sure, and that's a good argument that the tradeoff isn't worth it in modern society. But what the previous commenter said was not.

falcolas 9y ago

> who says that people with ADHD are incapable of working in a modern corporation ADHD is a disorder whose primary feature is the inability to control concentration. It's a disorder because the feature is strong enough that a person has trouble interacting with society without help. So, someone who is diagnosed with ADHD has trouble interacting with society without help. There is no modern institution which supports an inability to control concentration as a money provider. Paintings need to be completed. Novels need to be completed. Abstract thoughts need to be written down. Any advantage experienced by those with ADHD is also experienced by those who have trouble directing their concentration, but not to a severe enough degree to require assistance interacting with society. I can bet a lot of folks with ADHD would rather live at that point on the spectrum.

mistercow 9y ago
There is nothing in the definition of a mental disorder that implies that a person requires assistance to interact with society. You can certainly have ADHD while being capable of coping on your own.
- wgjordan 9y ago
  The DSM-IV definition for ADHD requires "clinically significant impairment in social, academic or occupational environments". This was (somewhat controversially) softened to "clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, academic, or occupational functioning" in DSM-V (2013).
  - mistercow 9y ago
    Right: impairment, interference, and reduced quality. Not inability to function.
    - wpietri 9y ago
      For sure. And I think it's important to note that in a disorder characterized by a mismatch between a person and their environment, changing the environment can apparently make the disorder disappear. For example, imagine a musician with ADHD. They might struggle a good deal in school, which requires doing a lot of to-them-boring stuff. But once they're out of school, they might be perfectly good at earning a living, because the environment they create is suited to their approach to the world. I was talking just recently with a software developer with ADHD. They preferred a pair programming environment because that was much more engaging to them than solo coding.
    - wgjordan 9y ago
      'Inability to function' is a straw man, 'requires assistance' was what you claimed was nowhere implied by the definition of a mental disorder. One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. By definition (DSM-IV Criterion D 'clinically significant impairment'), an ADHD diagnosis is appropriate only when the symptoms cause severe enough impairment that require assistance (e.g., 'clinical intervention') to function. [1] See e.g., "Symptoms Versus Impairment: The Case for Respecting DSM-IV’s Criterion D", http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893.7909&rep=rep1&type=pdf http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.893...
      - mistercow 9y ago
        Well, "incapable of working in a modern corporation" was the original claim. > One could certainly exhibit ADHD-like _symptoms_ while still being capable of coping on their own (= low 'impairment'), but an ADHD diagnosis would be incorrect in this case [1]. I don't see how your source backs this statement up. Yes, it's possible to have many symptoms but low impairment, but your premise that "capable of coping on one's own" is the same as "low impairment" is simply false.
pgt 9y ago
“There is no modern institution which supports an inability to control concentration as a money provider.” Are you sure about that?
sifoo 9y ago
That's just not correct. It's an inability to focus on things that are not deemed interesting at the moment, and an inability to pretend otherwise. Give someone with ADHD traits a tricky problem that they believe in solving and you'll have to tear them away from it and force them to eat and sleep until it's solved.

cryoshon 9y ago

idk re: corporation, but look at the studies assessing unemployment rate of ADHD+ people. it's something ridiculously higher than the normal population.

mistercow 9y ago
Sure, and that's a good argument that the tradeoff isn't worth it in modern society. But what the previous commenter said was not.