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From a practical standpoint it's good for teams to be diverse and inclusive (it raises effectiveness, increases the talent pool, etc...) but also from a more ph

From a practical standpoint it's good for teams to be diverse and inclusive (it raises effectiveness, increases the talent pool, etc...) but also from a more philosophical point of view diversity and inclusion are necessary for an actual meritocracy as it's hard to say you have a true meritocracy when some people are hampered unnecessarily by cultural differences. The problem is that some people take "diversity initiatives" too far and it ends up being counterproductive (like agile and TDD and all that).

DoofusOfDeath 9y ago
Seems to me that requiring, rather than simply allowing, a team to be diverse actually restricts the talent pool. That is, it reduces the number of viable teams one can form from a population. And if you have an existing team you need to grow, it can rule out some candidates.
- pooya13 9y ago
  True. But if we want to break a feedback loop and exit a local minimum in hopes of reaching a global minimum it might be needed to force diversity out of the local minimum for a period before letting it to naturally settle.
- Hnrobert42 9y ago
  I understand your position I agree with it in theory. In practice, that’s not how things work. If it was, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. In practice, simply “allowing” for diversity doesn’t work. The only way to reach diversity goals is to actively include people. So long as those people are qualified, I am okay if the cost is missing out on a slightly more qualified candidate. Not least of which because horing isn’t an exact science in which qualifications are completely measurable and all possible candidates are always considered. Again, reality is messy. So a few white dudes (such as myself) might not get a job because of a quota. Big deal. If I am such hot shit that I definitely should have gotten the job, then I won’t have a problem getting a job elsewhere.
  - emsy 9y ago
    >So a few white dudes (such as myself) might not get a job because of a quota. Big deal. It is. You're either racist or you're not. You can sugercoat it with comfy terms such as "diversity" or "inclusion" but as soon as you positively discriminate for one race, you negatively discriminate against another and that is racism, even if it "only" affects white males. Or stated differently, would you be for quotas if it meant a POC doesn't get the job, because there are already too many? If not, why?
    - scientician 9y ago
      Hear hear! If you're not against racism, and you support racist policies, you're a racist!
      - emsy 9y ago
        There is no need for sarcasm. I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm sure I didn't call anyone "a racist". I intended to use racist as an adjective. Such a misunderstanding could've easily been avoided had you asked me for clarification or picked a more charitable interpretation of my comment.
        scientician 9y ago
        ..... Why would you think I was being sarcastic? I agree with you ...
    - dwaltrip 9y ago
      > You're either racist or you're not. If only it were this simple... In reality, life doesn't seem to be constrained to our underdeveloped conceptual boxes, no matter how much we get attached to them.
      - emsy 9y ago
        I think I understand what you're getting at, but I didn't intend to draw a hard line of what racism is, but merely wanted to point out the slippery slope you're of using racist policies to fix discriminatory issues.
- tdb7893 9y ago
  Yeah, this can be an example of going maybe too far if they are very strict about it. It's a balancing act

DoofusOfDeath 9y ago

Seems to me that requiring, rather than simply allowing, a team to be diverse actually restricts the talent pool. That is, it reduces the number of viable teams one can form from a population. And if you have an existing team you need to grow, it can rule out some candidates.

pooya13 9y ago
True. But if we want to break a feedback loop and exit a local minimum in hopes of reaching a global minimum it might be needed to force diversity out of the local minimum for a period before letting it to naturally settle.
Hnrobert42 9y ago
I understand your position I agree with it in theory. In practice, that’s not how things work. If it was, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. In practice, simply “allowing” for diversity doesn’t work. The only way to reach diversity goals is to actively include people. So long as those people are qualified, I am okay if the cost is missing out on a slightly more qualified candidate. Not least of which because horing isn’t an exact science in which qualifications are completely measurable and all possible candidates are always considered. Again, reality is messy. So a few white dudes (such as myself) might not get a job because of a quota. Big deal. If I am such hot shit that I definitely should have gotten the job, then I won’t have a problem getting a job elsewhere.
- emsy 9y ago
  >So a few white dudes (such as myself) might not get a job because of a quota. Big deal. It is. You're either racist or you're not. You can sugercoat it with comfy terms such as "diversity" or "inclusion" but as soon as you positively discriminate for one race, you negatively discriminate against another and that is racism, even if it "only" affects white males. Or stated differently, would you be for quotas if it meant a POC doesn't get the job, because there are already too many? If not, why?
  - scientician 9y ago
    Hear hear! If you're not against racism, and you support racist policies, you're a racist!
    - emsy 9y ago
      There is no need for sarcasm. I'm not a native English speaker, but I'm sure I didn't call anyone "a racist". I intended to use racist as an adjective. Such a misunderstanding could've easily been avoided had you asked me for clarification or picked a more charitable interpretation of my comment.
      - scientician 9y ago
        ..... Why would you think I was being sarcastic? I agree with you ...
  - dwaltrip 9y ago
    > You're either racist or you're not. If only it were this simple... In reality, life doesn't seem to be constrained to our underdeveloped conceptual boxes, no matter how much we get attached to them.
    - emsy 9y ago
      I think I understand what you're getting at, but I didn't intend to draw a hard line of what racism is, but merely wanted to point out the slippery slope you're of using racist policies to fix discriminatory issues.
tdb7893 9y ago
Yeah, this can be an example of going maybe too far if they are very strict about it. It's a balancing act