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I'm sorry but the actions of the Viet Cong do not excuse the crimes committed the US, and neither does the nationality of your parents. To this day, many are m

I'm sorry but the actions of the Viet Cong do not excuse the crimes committed the US, and neither does the nationality of your parents. To this day, many are maimed and killed by US land mines in the region, and the US does not give a shit.

Erlangolem 9y ago
Just one point: there is no, “The US” as I’ve learned over time. The US is geographically vast, and full of hundreds of millions of people from wildly different backgrounds. Those poeple have politics ranging from Ghengis Khan, to Ghandi. They seem to agree, as a nation, on very little.
- maxxxxx 9y ago
  That is true for every country so it doesn't add anything to the discussion.
  - Erlangolem 9y ago
    Have you ever been to Iceland? Sweden is remarkably united in their politics as well. Japan is much less politically and culturally diverse than most US states. Few countries are as geographically large and populous as the US either, even before you work in hundreds of years of immigration. I don’t appreciate your shallow dismissal.
    - maxxxxx 9y ago
      I have lived in Germany and the US each for years and for months in several other countries. From the outside or on a short visit all countries look homogeneous. Only after a while you see the subtleties. From that perspective I don't think the US is any different from other countries. Maybe other countries are in agreement on things that are contentious in the US but then they have other issues that never get discussed in the US. In short, the US is nothing special. It's a country like every other country and should be treated as such.
      - Erlangolem 9y ago
        I disagree, but I can’t see the value in pitting anecdote against anecdote. If you want to believe that the US’ history, geography, and demographics make it essentially the same as (to use my examples) Iceland, Japan, and Sweden, I doubt that I could change your mind.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Look at where this discussion started. It started from someone talking about the Viet Cong and the US. Then you said there is no such thing as the US because it's so big and diverse. In this context the US has to be seen as one unit or how else can you describe a war? As far as Sweden goes I bet the people living north of the Arctic circle have little in common with people living in Stockholm.
        Erlangolem 9y ago
        To this day, many are maimed and killed by US land mines in the region, and the US does not give a shit. My point is that’s it’s incorrect to speak of 330 million diverse people as collectively not giving a shit. I stand by that.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Then never talk about any other group like "the Chinese", "the Russians" or "the Nazis" again either. Because these are also millions of diverse people too.
        Erlangolem 9y ago
        Then never talk about any other group like "the Chinese", "the Russians" or "the Nazis" again either. Because these are also millions of diverse people too. One of those things is not like the other, two of those things are kinda the same. Nazism is an ideology, a movement, so I’m going to move past that red herring. The rest though, good advice that I try very hard to live by. I’m not sure at what point you decided that I was arguing in favor of something else. It would be downright stupid to assume that the lives and views of someone raising ducks and pigs on a small farm in an outer province of Chins bears much resemblance to the life of a high-level beaurocrat in Beijing. Some teenager with no future or hope in the outskirts of Moscow isn’t like a grandmother in Novasibirsk, or an oligarch in a penthouse. By the same token, don’t assume that the US is some magically homogeneous group of people who don’t care if a Vietnamese child is blown away by a 50 year old mine. Edit: Because apparently it must be said, The US Governmemt != “The US” in the same way that the Chinese Communist Pary isn’t “China” and Putin isn’t “Russia”.
JoeAltmaier 9y ago
"The US" no longer uses anti-personnel mines outside the Korean DMZ (which is actually managed by the South Koreans). The US does not deploy them anywhere, and hasn't for years. Maybe its India and Pakistan we're thinking of, hm?
- rangibaby 9y ago
  The ones that were deployed during the Vietnam war are still there and hurting people
- Voloskaya 9y ago
  Did you really think she/he was suggesting that the US is setting up landmines in Vietnam 50 years after the war? Landmines can kill people a very long time after being deployed you know... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/18/vietnam-unexploded-landmines-bombs https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/18/vietnam-unexpl...
  - JoeAltmaier 9y ago
    So you really think people 50 years ago are 'the US'? That was my point. Thus the highlight.
    - simonh 9y ago
      Do you really think the US government bears no responsibility for the actions of the US government 50 years ago and the consequences today? Would you extend that to other governments too? In what circumstances would you not? What Cut off period do you think is right generally? For example do you think the US has no responsibility towards Pacific Islanders whose islands are now lethally radioactive due to nuclear tests 50 years ago, and can reasonably wash its hands of any problems arising from that today?
- kss238 9y ago
  The comment was about mines left behind from the Vietnam war, not present day.
vietnamese59 9y ago
You're setting up a straw man to an argument I never made. All I'm telling you is how my dad, his brothers, and the vast majority of his first generation Vietnamese friends (who arrived as refugees) feel about America and the Vietnam War. Despite what you may think, they wholeheartedly support America. If you don't believe me, you should try visiting Little Saigon on Bolsa Avenue in Orange Country and ask them what they think of the USA. Look at the flags they use (South Vietnam and the USA). If you want to get assaulted (I highly don't recommend this), try bringing Vietnam's current flag and parade it around. EDIT: to andrepd: Again, you keep setting up straw man arguments. It's very easy to attack someone if you misrepresent their views. I never said anything about excusing massacres.
- andrepd 9y ago
  Well thank you for that comprehensive study. I guess we shouldn't worry about the massacre anymore -.-
- sho 9y ago
  > try visiting Little Saigon on Bolsa Avenue in Orange Country > If you want to get assaulted [..] try bringing Vietnam's current flag and parade it around What a bizarre argument. Of course you're going to find pro-USA sentiment in the very people who decided to move to the USA. I hope you realise that the opinions of a few immigrants in the states are going to be pretty unrepresentative of those who actually live in, you know, Vietnam. Speak to actual vietnamese people from actual vietnam and I don't think you'll find they are overwhelmingly pro-USA, nor at all interested in the flag of south vietnam. I'm no expert, but my experience is that they're mildly positive in attitude, mostly due to pop culture. The war was a long time ago and most people are just getting on with their lives. Many immigrant communities foster a kind of "nostalgic nationalism" as a coping strategy when adapting to a profoundly different environment. It dates pretty rapidly. I very much doubt many of the 90+ million people in Vietnam even know of "Little Saigon", nor care overmuch about the opinions of a bunch of old-timers sitting in a mall in California.
  - refurb 9y ago
    Actually, Vietnam is one of the most pro-American countries in the world. There was a survey a while and over 90% view the US favorably. You can find it with a google search.

Erlangolem 9y ago

Just one point: there is no, “The US” as I’ve learned over time. The US is geographically vast, and full of hundreds of millions of people from wildly different backgrounds. Those poeple have politics ranging from Ghengis Khan, to Ghandi. They seem to agree, as a nation, on very little.

maxxxxx 9y ago
That is true for every country so it doesn't add anything to the discussion.
- Erlangolem 9y ago
  Have you ever been to Iceland? Sweden is remarkably united in their politics as well. Japan is much less politically and culturally diverse than most US states. Few countries are as geographically large and populous as the US either, even before you work in hundreds of years of immigration. I don’t appreciate your shallow dismissal.
  - maxxxxx 9y ago
    I have lived in Germany and the US each for years and for months in several other countries. From the outside or on a short visit all countries look homogeneous. Only after a while you see the subtleties. From that perspective I don't think the US is any different from other countries. Maybe other countries are in agreement on things that are contentious in the US but then they have other issues that never get discussed in the US. In short, the US is nothing special. It's a country like every other country and should be treated as such.
    - Erlangolem 9y ago
      I disagree, but I can’t see the value in pitting anecdote against anecdote. If you want to believe that the US’ history, geography, and demographics make it essentially the same as (to use my examples) Iceland, Japan, and Sweden, I doubt that I could change your mind.
      - maxxxxx 9y ago
        Look at where this discussion started. It started from someone talking about the Viet Cong and the US. Then you said there is no such thing as the US because it's so big and diverse. In this context the US has to be seen as one unit or how else can you describe a war? As far as Sweden goes I bet the people living north of the Arctic circle have little in common with people living in Stockholm.
        Erlangolem 9y ago
        To this day, many are maimed and killed by US land mines in the region, and the US does not give a shit. My point is that’s it’s incorrect to speak of 330 million diverse people as collectively not giving a shit. I stand by that.
        maxxxxx 9y ago
        Then never talk about any other group like "the Chinese", "the Russians" or "the Nazis" again either. Because these are also millions of diverse people too.
        Erlangolem 9y ago
        Then never talk about any other group like "the Chinese", "the Russians" or "the Nazis" again either. Because these are also millions of diverse people too. One of those things is not like the other, two of those things are kinda the same. Nazism is an ideology, a movement, so I’m going to move past that red herring. The rest though, good advice that I try very hard to live by. I’m not sure at what point you decided that I was arguing in favor of something else. It would be downright stupid to assume that the lives and views of someone raising ducks and pigs on a small farm in an outer province of Chins bears much resemblance to the life of a high-level beaurocrat in Beijing. Some teenager with no future or hope in the outskirts of Moscow isn’t like a grandmother in Novasibirsk, or an oligarch in a penthouse. By the same token, don’t assume that the US is some magically homogeneous group of people who don’t care if a Vietnamese child is blown away by a 50 year old mine. Edit: Because apparently it must be said, The US Governmemt != “The US” in the same way that the Chinese Communist Pary isn’t “China” and Putin isn’t “Russia”.

JoeAltmaier 9y ago

"The US" no longer uses anti-personnel mines outside the Korean DMZ (which is actually managed by the South Koreans). The US does not deploy them anywhere, and hasn't for years. Maybe its India and Pakistan we're thinking of, hm?

rangibaby 9y ago
The ones that were deployed during the Vietnam war are still there and hurting people
Voloskaya 9y ago
Did you really think she/he was suggesting that the US is setting up landmines in Vietnam 50 years after the war? Landmines can kill people a very long time after being deployed you know... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/18/vietnam-unexploded-landmines-bombs https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/sep/18/vietnam-unexpl...
- JoeAltmaier 9y ago
  So you really think people 50 years ago are 'the US'? That was my point. Thus the highlight.
  - simonh 9y ago
    Do you really think the US government bears no responsibility for the actions of the US government 50 years ago and the consequences today? Would you extend that to other governments too? In what circumstances would you not? What Cut off period do you think is right generally? For example do you think the US has no responsibility towards Pacific Islanders whose islands are now lethally radioactive due to nuclear tests 50 years ago, and can reasonably wash its hands of any problems arising from that today?
kss238 9y ago
The comment was about mines left behind from the Vietnam war, not present day.

vietnamese59 9y ago

You're setting up a straw man to an argument I never made. All I'm telling you is how my dad, his brothers, and the vast majority of his first generation Vietnamese friends (who arrived as refugees) feel about America and the Vietnam War. Despite what you may think, they wholeheartedly support America. If you don't believe me, you should try visiting Little Saigon on Bolsa Avenue in Orange Country and ask them what they think of the USA. Look at the flags they use (South Vietnam and the USA). If you want to get assaulted (I highly don't recommend this), try bringing Vietnam's current flag and parade it around. EDIT: to andrepd: Again, you keep setting up straw man arguments. It's very easy to attack someone if you misrepresent their views. I never said anything about excusing massacres.

andrepd 9y ago
Well thank you for that comprehensive study. I guess we shouldn't worry about the massacre anymore -.-
sho 9y ago
> try visiting Little Saigon on Bolsa Avenue in Orange Country > If you want to get assaulted [..] try bringing Vietnam's current flag and parade it around What a bizarre argument. Of course you're going to find pro-USA sentiment in the very people who decided to move to the USA. I hope you realise that the opinions of a few immigrants in the states are going to be pretty unrepresentative of those who actually live in, you know, Vietnam. Speak to actual vietnamese people from actual vietnam and I don't think you'll find they are overwhelmingly pro-USA, nor at all interested in the flag of south vietnam. I'm no expert, but my experience is that they're mildly positive in attitude, mostly due to pop culture. The war was a long time ago and most people are just getting on with their lives. Many immigrant communities foster a kind of "nostalgic nationalism" as a coping strategy when adapting to a profoundly different environment. It dates pretty rapidly. I very much doubt many of the 90+ million people in Vietnam even know of "Little Saigon", nor care overmuch about the opinions of a bunch of old-timers sitting in a mall in California.
- refurb 9y ago
  Actually, Vietnam is one of the most pro-American countries in the world. There was a survey a while and over 90% view the US favorably. You can find it with a google search.