4 ms·

This person is a chinese expat, with a chinese passport. I think he knows the difference. And you only have to look to the rest of asia to see in this case, it

This person is a chinese expat, with a chinese passport. I think he knows the difference. And you only have to look to the rest of asia to see in this case, it's not a difference of 'culture'.

mirimir 9y ago
I'm not disagreeing that there's a difference. I'm saying that it'd be odd if there weren't a difference. Also, it's not useful to lump China with Asia overall.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  China is, historically speaking, the most influential country in East and Southeast Asia, as evidenced by the fact that Korea, Japan, and Vietnam all use or used a script derived from Chinese characters and that there is a large Chinese diaspora in even more countries in the region. On what basis would we consider China an outlier? Just the post-war era? Despite ambitions to do so the CCP did not exactly sweep away Chinese culture as it existed prior to the ascendance of Mao.
  - mirimir 9y ago
    I'm not sure why we're arguing. China clearly is different from the West. And so are other Asian nations. Not as different as China is, however. Maybe more or less proportionally vs relative cultural influence from China and the West.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      I disagree with the idea that it "isn't useful to lump in China with Asia overall" because, in fact, there is a lot of commonality between Chinese culture and other Asian cultures.
      - mirimir 9y ago
        Well, there are lumpers and splitters, and I tend to be a splitter. But anyway, should one judge China based on Western principles and values. If so, what would be the basis for that? And if not, should one judge China based on principles and values of <some other Asian nation>? I don't see the basis for that, either. However, it is of course valid for Chinese to judge their own country, based on whatever principles and values they might hold. And to work for change. But that's a very different thing from random Westerners judging China. Personally, I can't imagine living in China. I have a hard enough time tolerating the US. But it's for sure better than where I came from. Although, I must admit, far from what I had imagined. But so it goes.
        glenstein 9y ago
        >But anyway, should one judge China based on Western principles and values. If so, what would be the basis for that? I would say that justifying authoritarianism is a perfect example of how appeals to cultural relativism can be dangerous.
        mirimir 9y ago
        There's a distinction that I've been failing horribly to make clearly. I don't like the current Chinese regime. I wouldn't want to live there. And I support projects to help Chinese dissidents. However, I do my best to avoid judging. Labeling. Appealing to illusory fundamental ideals and standards. Sure, but maybe "authoritarianism" is just an abstract concept, and there's a lot more to the current Chinese situation th
        emodendroket 9y ago
        Without getting into the weeds of what exactly we should say they are, I would argue there is such a thing as a set of universal principles that anyone should be held to (to take the trite, obvious example, we shouldn't excuse the Holocaust on the basis of some distinct German values).
        9y ago

This person is a chinese expat, with a chinese passport. I think he knows the difference. And you only have to look to the rest of asia to see in this case, it's not a difference of 'culture'.

mirimir 9y ago

I'm not disagreeing that there's a difference. I'm saying that it'd be odd if there weren't a difference. Also, it's not useful to lump China with Asia overall.

emodendroket 9y ago
China is, historically speaking, the most influential country in East and Southeast Asia, as evidenced by the fact that Korea, Japan, and Vietnam all use or used a script derived from Chinese characters and that there is a large Chinese diaspora in even more countries in the region. On what basis would we consider China an outlier? Just the post-war era? Despite ambitions to do so the CCP did not exactly sweep away Chinese culture as it existed prior to the ascendance of Mao.
- mirimir 9y ago
  I'm not sure why we're arguing. China clearly is different from the West. And so are other Asian nations. Not as different as China is, however. Maybe more or less proportionally vs relative cultural influence from China and the West.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    I disagree with the idea that it "isn't useful to lump in China with Asia overall" because, in fact, there is a lot of commonality between Chinese culture and other Asian cultures.
    - mirimir 9y ago
      Well, there are lumpers and splitters, and I tend to be a splitter. But anyway, should one judge China based on Western principles and values. If so, what would be the basis for that? And if not, should one judge China based on principles and values of <some other Asian nation>? I don't see the basis for that, either. However, it is of course valid for Chinese to judge their own country, based on whatever principles and values they might hold. And to work for change. But that's a very different thing from random Westerners judging China. Personally, I can't imagine living in China. I have a hard enough time tolerating the US. But it's for sure better than where I came from. Although, I must admit, far from what I had imagined. But so it goes.
      - glenstein 9y ago
        >But anyway, should one judge China based on Western principles and values. If so, what would be the basis for that? I would say that justifying authoritarianism is a perfect example of how appeals to cultural relativism can be dangerous.
        mirimir 9y ago
        There's a distinction that I've been failing horribly to make clearly. I don't like the current Chinese regime. I wouldn't want to live there. And I support projects to help Chinese dissidents. However, I do my best to avoid judging. Labeling. Appealing to illusory fundamental ideals and standards. Sure, but maybe "authoritarianism" is just an abstract concept, and there's a lot more to the current Chinese situation th
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        Without getting into the weeds of what exactly we should say they are, I would argue there is such a thing as a set of universal principles that anyone should be held to (to take the trite, obvious example, we shouldn't excuse the Holocaust on the basis of some distinct German values).
        9y ago