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I haven't worked for an employer that's held that view since high school (when I bagged groceries). I'm skeptical any successful business treats high-skilled e

I haven't worked for an employer that's held that view since high school (when I bagged groceries). I'm skeptical any successful business treats high-skilled employees that way.

poulsbohemian 9y ago
This was every company I've ever worked at or consulted to, which is in large part at the root of why I went freelance. Are there really great companies with culture that treats highly-paid, highly-skilled professionals as professionals? Yes, I'm sure there are, but they are rare.
- exelius 9y ago
  Go work for a big 4 as a consultant in your specialty? Sure you’ll work 80 hours a week and travel basically all the time, but you get a lot of latitude and professionalism in exchange for that.
  - p0ints 9y ago
    My (anecdotal) observation is that this big4 "professionalism" is mostly a self-imporant delusion (probably imprinted into people by years of company culture and trainings), and that a lot of senior people in there are insufferable wankers. That's from my experience with senior managers from Deloitte and PwC.
    - exelius 9y ago
      Haha, completely true, but you get a lot of latitude and you are actually valued as an employee — unlike most salaried jobs, there is a direct correlation between your paycheck and the company’s revenue. There is also a high incentive for the company to pay to keep your skills up-to-date. The culture in consulting has its problems, but things are getting better and we’re seeing a lot more women entering senior roles which is starting to fix some of the bad behavior that has traditionally gone on. As for acting self-important? It takes a fucking ego to have a 27 year old kid tell a 50 year old SVP how to do his job. But as a result, people in consulting generally respect each others large egos, which gets you some degree of professionalism.
- LarryDarrell 9y ago
  The worst are the ones that constantly say, "We're like a family here." Family of psychopaths maybe. YMMV, I find companies in the Midwest would rather you check your empathy at the door.
  - twoquestions 9y ago
    You detailed my thoughts much better than I did. Maybe it's my Midwestern upbringing, but I'd rather just get my job done than be an emotional sop for my coworkers, or worse have other people be an emotional sop for me.
    - bomb199 9y ago
      > but I'd rather just get my job done than be an emotional sop for my coworkers, or worse have other people be an emotional sop for me I don't think you have to be in THAT kind of relationship with coworkers.
  - quickthrower2 9y ago
    Ironically not many people can bear to work with their relatives!
  - leggomylibro 9y ago
    >We're just one big family and, when you've been to a few domestic disputes, Littlebottom, I can assure you that you'll see the resemblance. - Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay
- johnmaguire2013 9y ago
  They are rare, but I've found myself at one so I can say with certainty that they do exist. And it's in the company's best interest: Turnover is extremely low, which means that knowledge and talent are retained. It makes business sense.
LandR 9y ago
I've worked as a developer where we weren't expected to talk to each other for non work related stuff. To the point where it would be brought up by managers, or even an employee pulled and told they were talking too much. You are expected to go in, head down, do your 8 hours work, go home. Non work stuff was expected to be kept to non work hours. I've also worked at highly social workplaces, drinking on the job, people playing guitar in office, everyone going out for lunch together, everyone felt like a good friend (and even after leaving are still good friends). I preferred the second, I'm not sure which was more productive though... I think the 2nd waa great few years but it probably wasn't sunstainable and I kinda understand an employer would prefer me to be a code creating robot rather than a human.
- sunsunsunsun 9y ago
  You just described two extremes, surely there is a middle ground somewhere?

I haven't worked for an employer that's held that view since high school (when I bagged groceries). I'm skeptical any successful business treats high-skilled employees that way.

poulsbohemian 9y ago

This was every company I've ever worked at or consulted to, which is in large part at the root of why I went freelance. Are there really great companies with culture that treats highly-paid, highly-skilled professionals as professionals? Yes, I'm sure there are, but they are rare.

exelius 9y ago
Go work for a big 4 as a consultant in your specialty? Sure you’ll work 80 hours a week and travel basically all the time, but you get a lot of latitude and professionalism in exchange for that.
- p0ints 9y ago
  My (anecdotal) observation is that this big4 "professionalism" is mostly a self-imporant delusion (probably imprinted into people by years of company culture and trainings), and that a lot of senior people in there are insufferable wankers. That's from my experience with senior managers from Deloitte and PwC.
  - exelius 9y ago
    Haha, completely true, but you get a lot of latitude and you are actually valued as an employee — unlike most salaried jobs, there is a direct correlation between your paycheck and the company’s revenue. There is also a high incentive for the company to pay to keep your skills up-to-date. The culture in consulting has its problems, but things are getting better and we’re seeing a lot more women entering senior roles which is starting to fix some of the bad behavior that has traditionally gone on. As for acting self-important? It takes a fucking ego to have a 27 year old kid tell a 50 year old SVP how to do his job. But as a result, people in consulting generally respect each others large egos, which gets you some degree of professionalism.
LarryDarrell 9y ago
The worst are the ones that constantly say, "We're like a family here." Family of psychopaths maybe. YMMV, I find companies in the Midwest would rather you check your empathy at the door.
- twoquestions 9y ago
  You detailed my thoughts much better than I did. Maybe it's my Midwestern upbringing, but I'd rather just get my job done than be an emotional sop for my coworkers, or worse have other people be an emotional sop for me.
  - bomb199 9y ago
    > but I'd rather just get my job done than be an emotional sop for my coworkers, or worse have other people be an emotional sop for me I don't think you have to be in THAT kind of relationship with coworkers.
- quickthrower2 9y ago
  Ironically not many people can bear to work with their relatives!
- leggomylibro 9y ago
  >We're just one big family and, when you've been to a few domestic disputes, Littlebottom, I can assure you that you'll see the resemblance. - Terry Pratchett, Feet of Clay
johnmaguire2013 9y ago
They are rare, but I've found myself at one so I can say with certainty that they do exist. And it's in the company's best interest: Turnover is extremely low, which means that knowledge and talent are retained. It makes business sense.

LandR 9y ago

I've worked as a developer where we weren't expected to talk to each other for non work related stuff. To the point where it would be brought up by managers, or even an employee pulled and told they were talking too much. You are expected to go in, head down, do your 8 hours work, go home. Non work stuff was expected to be kept to non work hours. I've also worked at highly social workplaces, drinking on the job, people playing guitar in office, everyone going out for lunch together, everyone felt like a good friend (and even after leaving are still good friends). I preferred the second, I'm not sure which was more productive though... I think the 2nd waa great few years but it probably wasn't sunstainable and I kinda understand an employer would prefer me to be a code creating robot rather than a human.

sunsunsunsun 9y ago
You just described two extremes, surely there is a middle ground somewhere?