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Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? My understanding is that work is optional, comes with a very small amount

Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? My understanding is that work is optional, comes with a very small amount of compensation as incentive, but is otherwise non-compulsory. Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor?

crankylinuxuser 9y ago
https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation-exists-and-it-s-thriving-in-the-heart-of-america#.8QMzstFSM https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation...
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  > https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation-exists-and-it-s-thriving-in-the-heart-of-america#.8QMzstFSM https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation... Mic.com's business model is to deliberately present things in the most inflammatory way possible to make people outraged and profit from the resulting clicks: https://theoutline.com/post/2156/mic-com-and-the-cynicism-of-modern-media https://theoutline.com/post/2156/mic-com-and-the-cynicism-of...: > During these experiments, Mic continued to bait Facebook readers into getting worked up over everything: Mark Zuckerberg’s hoodie, a high school teacher in Oregon who doesn’t believe in rape culture, people with bad opinions on Thought Catalog, people using bad hashtags, and Zazzle.com. “Mic trafficked in outrage culture,” a former staffer who left in 2017 said. “A lot of the videos that we would publish would be like, ‘Here is this racist person doing a racist thing in this nondescript southern city somewhere.’ There wouldn’t be any reporting or story around it, just, ‘Look at this person being racist, wow what a terrible racist.’” Mic had already exhausted its outrage vocabulary by the time Trump’s election supercharged civil rights violations.
- mieseratte 9y ago
  To save the curious reader some Googling since the article doesn't seem to explain beyond "forced labor", one can be compelled to work under threat of solitary confinement at Angola so long as they are deemed medically able. Not quite full-on Chattel Slavery, it still is compensated and there is an "out," but that does seem borderline.
  - m_mueller 9y ago
    borderline? what more than psychological torture do they have to do to be over the line?
PurpleBoxDragon 9y ago
>My understanding is that work is optional Its officially optional on paper, but in practice it can be held against you and result in worse treatment and longer prison time (such as being used against you in parole hearings). Also, slavery doesn't require being used for labor. While most slavery is for some economic gain to the slave holder, it isn't a required component.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Its officially optional on paper Except in that in the federal system and many state systems, it's officially required of all able-bodied prisoners and refusal gets extra punishment, such as solitary confinement.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    "solitary confinement" which is properly recognized as a form of torture. So you CAN opt to be tortured instead. Clearly optional
bdcravens 9y ago
Some states (for instance, Texas) require (with medical exceptions) inmates to work, with no compensation
DoreenMichele 9y ago
Yes, and there are plenty of articles about it. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-labor-in-america/406177/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... It is also apparently mentioned in Hillary Clinton's memoirs that they had unpaid prison labor at the governor's mansion to save money.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  >> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? > Yes, and there are plenty of articles about it. For example: Let's look up the definition of "slave": > a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; Prison labor is not slavery, this is clearly shown by the fact that you can't buy or sell prisoners on the open market. Prison labor is involuntary servitude. It's still shitty and in need of reform, but hyperbole does no one any good.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    Let's imagine an alternate history where, before the Civil War, they made a law that said you could no longer buy and sell your slaves, but you could still keep them on your property and make them labor for you. Has slavery been abolished? I'd say no, not in any meaningful sense.
  - damnyou 9y ago
    Chattel slavery is not the only form of slavery.
  - psyc 9y ago
    Distinction without a difference.
dragonwriter 9y ago
> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? Yes, and it is precisely the reason the US is one of the few eligible countries not to have ratified the main current treaty against slavery, the ILO Forced Labor Convention. > My understanding is that work is optional Prison labor is generally mandatory for able-bodied prisoners in the federal system, and this is true in some state systems as well. > Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor? Historically, slavery has often had compensation, and, yes, there are literally forced labor prison farms in the USA, such as the Mississippi State Penitentiary, aka “Parchman Farm”. There have been some reforms since the origins of the penal slavery system in the US, in which the government involved literally rented convicted out to private businesses, but it remains a system of slavery, often involving a public/private partnership for profit.
- Chaebixi 9y ago
  Note: this topic is a horrible derail from the OP. >> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? >Yes, and it is precisely the reason the US is one of the few eligible countries not to have ratified the main current treaty against slavery, the ILO Forced Labor Convention. That's false. Involuntary servitude is not slavery. Here's the definition of slave: > a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; To be a slave, you have to be someone's property, as in able to be bought and sold as chattle. > the main current treaty against slavery, the ILO Forced Labor Convention. That treaty clearly prohibits a much broader class of things than just slavery, it purports to ban forced labor of almost any kind (for anyone who isn't "an adult able-bodied male", apparently): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Labour_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Labour_Convention > Its object and purpose is to suppress the use of forced labour in all its forms irrespective of the nature of the work or the sector of activity in which it may be performed. The Convention defines forced labour as "all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily", with few exceptions like compulsorly military service. The convention excludes "adult able-bodied males", to whom legal imposition of forced labour is allowed.
emodendroket 9y ago
> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

crankylinuxuser 9y ago

https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation-exists-and-it-s-thriving-in-the-heart-of-america#.8QMzstFSM https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation...

Chaebixi 9y ago
> https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation-exists-and-it-s-thriving-in-the-heart-of-america#.8QMzstFSM https://mic.com/articles/88461/a-modern-day-slave-plantation... Mic.com's business model is to deliberately present things in the most inflammatory way possible to make people outraged and profit from the resulting clicks: https://theoutline.com/post/2156/mic-com-and-the-cynicism-of-modern-media https://theoutline.com/post/2156/mic-com-and-the-cynicism-of...: > During these experiments, Mic continued to bait Facebook readers into getting worked up over everything: Mark Zuckerberg’s hoodie, a high school teacher in Oregon who doesn’t believe in rape culture, people with bad opinions on Thought Catalog, people using bad hashtags, and Zazzle.com. “Mic trafficked in outrage culture,” a former staffer who left in 2017 said. “A lot of the videos that we would publish would be like, ‘Here is this racist person doing a racist thing in this nondescript southern city somewhere.’ There wouldn’t be any reporting or story around it, just, ‘Look at this person being racist, wow what a terrible racist.’” Mic had already exhausted its outrage vocabulary by the time Trump’s election supercharged civil rights violations.
mieseratte 9y ago
To save the curious reader some Googling since the article doesn't seem to explain beyond "forced labor", one can be compelled to work under threat of solitary confinement at Angola so long as they are deemed medically able. Not quite full-on Chattel Slavery, it still is compensated and there is an "out," but that does seem borderline.
- m_mueller 9y ago
  borderline? what more than psychological torture do they have to do to be over the line?

PurpleBoxDragon 9y ago

>My understanding is that work is optional Its officially optional on paper, but in practice it can be held against you and result in worse treatment and longer prison time (such as being used against you in parole hearings). Also, slavery doesn't require being used for labor. While most slavery is for some economic gain to the slave holder, it isn't a required component.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Its officially optional on paper Except in that in the federal system and many state systems, it's officially required of all able-bodied prisoners and refusal gets extra punishment, such as solitary confinement.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  "solitary confinement" which is properly recognized as a form of torture. So you CAN opt to be tortured instead. Clearly optional

bdcravens 9y ago

Some states (for instance, Texas) require (with medical exceptions) inmates to work, with no compensation

DoreenMichele 9y ago

Yes, and there are plenty of articles about it. For example: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-labor-in-america/406177/ https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/prison-... It is also apparently mentioned in Hillary Clinton's memoirs that they had unpaid prison labor at the governor's mansion to save money.

Chaebixi 9y ago
>> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? > Yes, and there are plenty of articles about it. For example: Let's look up the definition of "slave": > a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; Prison labor is not slavery, this is clearly shown by the fact that you can't buy or sell prisoners on the open market. Prison labor is involuntary servitude. It's still shitty and in need of reform, but hyperbole does no one any good.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- emodendroket 9y ago
  Let's imagine an alternate history where, before the Civil War, they made a law that said you could no longer buy and sell your slaves, but you could still keep them on your property and make them labor for you. Has slavery been abolished? I'd say no, not in any meaningful sense.
- damnyou 9y ago
  Chattel slavery is not the only form of slavery.
- psyc 9y ago
  Distinction without a difference.

dragonwriter 9y ago

> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? Yes, and it is precisely the reason the US is one of the few eligible countries not to have ratified the main current treaty against slavery, the ILO Forced Labor Convention. > My understanding is that work is optional Prison labor is generally mandatory for able-bodied prisoners in the federal system, and this is true in some state systems as well. > Is any US State or Federal prison running cotton plantations in Georgia with forced, uncompensated labor? Historically, slavery has often had compensation, and, yes, there are literally forced labor prison farms in the USA, such as the Mississippi State Penitentiary, aka “Parchman Farm”. There have been some reforms since the origins of the penal slavery system in the US, in which the government involved literally rented convicted out to private businesses, but it remains a system of slavery, often involving a public/private partnership for profit.

Chaebixi 9y ago
Note: this topic is a horrible derail from the OP. >> Does the United States actually practice slavery in the prison system in any fashion? >Yes, and it is precisely the reason the US is one of the few eligible countries not to have ratified the main current treaty against slavery, the ILO Forced Labor Convention. That's false. Involuntary servitude is not slavery. Here's the definition of slave: > a person who is the property of and wholly subject to another; To be a slave, you have to be someone's property, as in able to be bought and sold as chattle. > the main current treaty against slavery, the ILO Forced Labor Convention. That treaty clearly prohibits a much broader class of things than just slavery, it purports to ban forced labor of almost any kind (for anyone who isn't "an adult able-bodied male", apparently): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Labour_Convention https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_Labour_Convention > Its object and purpose is to suppress the use of forced labour in all its forms irrespective of the nature of the work or the sector of activity in which it may be performed. The Convention defines forced labour as "all work or service which is exacted from any person under the menace of any penalty and for which the said person has not offered himself voluntarily", with few exceptions like compulsorly military service. The convention excludes "adult able-bodied males", to whom legal imposition of forced labour is allowed.

emodendroket 9y ago

> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.