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So are you also OK with Camera Traffic Cops catching biking scoflaws who don't stop at lights, go the wrong way on one way streets, ride at dangerous speeds etc

So are you also OK with Camera Traffic Cops catching biking scoflaws who don't stop at lights, go the wrong way on one way streets, ride at dangerous speeds etc?

robert_foss 9y ago
Yes, of course.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  Well ... I was asking the author of the article :) But thanks. I would be OK with it as well but I think lots of people wouldn't. I think the only way to formalize such a system that treated all bad behavior equally in an automated fashion would result in the bikes having visible identification and I think that might be a non-starter for many.
  - oh_sigh 9y ago
    Please don't confuse frequency of hearing a message with the frequency of belief in that message in a population. Sure, there are a tiny fraction of bike riders who don't care about rules and happily flaunt them and defend their 'rights' to do so, but they are far overrepresented in the dialog. Most people who ride bikes follow the rules pretty closely, and don't go home at night posting on city message boards about how it's their right to break the law.
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      >"Please don't confuse frequency of hearing a message with the frequency of belief in that message in a population." To be clear we are talking about NYC here. If we were talking Coppenhagen or Berlin or Amsterdam yes that would be true. I'm not confusing "frequency of message." I'm being informed by actual observation. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists in NYC do not stop at red lights or use hand signals. All you have to do is stand on the stand on the street to confirm this. And yes it's the law: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/biketips.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/biketips.shtml And I'm speaking as a cyclist.
      - oh_sigh 9y ago
        And I'm speaking as a cyclist who has ridden in Manhattan as my main form of transportation 8 months/year for 10 years, as an occasional driver, frequent uber/taxi user that I disagree with your assessment.
        bogomipz 9y ago
        Really? You stopped at every red light on your way to work today and you witnessed nearly every other cyclist doing the same? Sorry I'm calling complete BS. That's just not reality. This is not some opinion thing. This is fact that's observable and verifiable by anyone standing on 1st or 2nd ave below 14th street right now.
        fenwick67 9y ago
        Cars usually don't stop at stop signs either, they slow down, check for oncoming traffic, then go if there is none.
        wkearney99 9y ago
        So, since they're breaking the law it's ok for you to break some too. Don't have kids yet, eh?
        mwfunk 9y ago
        Everybody makes rolling stops at stop signs on empty roads every once in a while. Based on my own anecdota, I wouldn't say that they usually make rolling stops though. It's still a ticket, that many local police in the US are more than happy to hand out. Not that it matters either way- it doesn't mean that it's OK for anyone to ignore stop signs as a rule.
        Simon_says 9y ago
        > Everybody makes rolling stops at stop signs on empty roads every once in a while. I don't. Nobody in my family does (at least when I'm in the car with them).
Steltek 9y ago
That's an interesting idea! But I'm not sure such a system is feasible. Judging by historical bike registration programs, the realistic implementation of such a system would be expensive, underachieving, and offer noteworthy levels of customer disservice. No one would accept the idea of a bike registration fee over ~$5, meaning the system would not be self-funded. Identification would probably be easily counterfeited. Bikes lacking identification would be ignored. Technically speaking, what ID would be visible to traffic cameras? A giant QR code fairing over the front wheel? Bikes come in many shapes and sizes so it's not as simple as a license plate. About the only guarantee you have is that it has at least one wheel that is at least 10" in diameter. You could maybe go with a radio beacon or something invisible but enforcement of requiring ID becomes very difficult.
- hueving 9y ago
  RFID tags combined with cameras watching for and flagging untagged bikes.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"Judging by historical bike registration programs." Well most bicycle licensing programs ended decades ago. I think it would be far more efficient and cheaper to implement such a system a now. >"Technically speaking, what ID would be visible to traffic cameras?" A small RFID transponder on the bike and an antenna mounted over the bike lane at an intersection. The antenna activates the transponder. This is similar to how the EZ-Pass toll system works in the US. Cars come in many shapes and sizes too and it works just fine .

So are you also OK with Camera Traffic Cops catching biking scoflaws who don't stop at lights, go the wrong way on one way streets, ride at dangerous speeds etc?

robert_foss 9y ago

Yes, of course.

bogomipz 9y ago
Well ... I was asking the author of the article :) But thanks. I would be OK with it as well but I think lots of people wouldn't. I think the only way to formalize such a system that treated all bad behavior equally in an automated fashion would result in the bikes having visible identification and I think that might be a non-starter for many.
- oh_sigh 9y ago
  Please don't confuse frequency of hearing a message with the frequency of belief in that message in a population. Sure, there are a tiny fraction of bike riders who don't care about rules and happily flaunt them and defend their 'rights' to do so, but they are far overrepresented in the dialog. Most people who ride bikes follow the rules pretty closely, and don't go home at night posting on city message boards about how it's their right to break the law.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    >"Please don't confuse frequency of hearing a message with the frequency of belief in that message in a population." To be clear we are talking about NYC here. If we were talking Coppenhagen or Berlin or Amsterdam yes that would be true. I'm not confusing "frequency of message." I'm being informed by actual observation. The overwhelming majority of bicyclists in NYC do not stop at red lights or use hand signals. All you have to do is stand on the stand on the street to confirm this. And yes it's the law: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/biketips.shtml http://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/bicyclists/biketips.shtml And I'm speaking as a cyclist.
    - oh_sigh 9y ago
      And I'm speaking as a cyclist who has ridden in Manhattan as my main form of transportation 8 months/year for 10 years, as an occasional driver, frequent uber/taxi user that I disagree with your assessment.
      - bogomipz 9y ago
        Really? You stopped at every red light on your way to work today and you witnessed nearly every other cyclist doing the same? Sorry I'm calling complete BS. That's just not reality. This is not some opinion thing. This is fact that's observable and verifiable by anyone standing on 1st or 2nd ave below 14th street right now.
        fenwick67 9y ago
        Cars usually don't stop at stop signs either, they slow down, check for oncoming traffic, then go if there is none.
        wkearney99 9y ago
        So, since they're breaking the law it's ok for you to break some too. Don't have kids yet, eh?
        mwfunk 9y ago
        Everybody makes rolling stops at stop signs on empty roads every once in a while. Based on my own anecdota, I wouldn't say that they usually make rolling stops though. It's still a ticket, that many local police in the US are more than happy to hand out. Not that it matters either way- it doesn't mean that it's OK for anyone to ignore stop signs as a rule.
        Simon_says 9y ago
        > Everybody makes rolling stops at stop signs on empty roads every once in a while. I don't. Nobody in my family does (at least when I'm in the car with them).

Steltek 9y ago

That's an interesting idea! But I'm not sure such a system is feasible. Judging by historical bike registration programs, the realistic implementation of such a system would be expensive, underachieving, and offer noteworthy levels of customer disservice. No one would accept the idea of a bike registration fee over ~$5, meaning the system would not be self-funded. Identification would probably be easily counterfeited. Bikes lacking identification would be ignored. Technically speaking, what ID would be visible to traffic cameras? A giant QR code fairing over the front wheel? Bikes come in many shapes and sizes so it's not as simple as a license plate. About the only guarantee you have is that it has at least one wheel that is at least 10" in diameter. You could maybe go with a radio beacon or something invisible but enforcement of requiring ID becomes very difficult.

hueving 9y ago
RFID tags combined with cameras watching for and flagging untagged bikes.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bogomipz 9y ago
>"Judging by historical bike registration programs." Well most bicycle licensing programs ended decades ago. I think it would be far more efficient and cheaper to implement such a system a now. >"Technically speaking, what ID would be visible to traffic cameras?" A small RFID transponder on the bike and an antenna mounted over the bike lane at an intersection. The antenna activates the transponder. This is similar to how the EZ-Pass toll system works in the US. Cars come in many shapes and sizes too and it works just fine .