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> Kirk was the captain of a ship, not of society. A ship captain is generally the dictator of their vessel. That's correct, but the Enterprise was clearly writ

> Kirk was the captain of a ship, not of society. A ship captain is generally the dictator of their vessel. That's correct, but the Enterprise was clearly written as a metaphor for the perfect society. I've also seen it referred to as such by people wanting to create the perfect society.

deleted 9y ago
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Jtsummers 9y ago
> That's correct, but the Enterprise was clearly written as a metaphor for the perfect society. My perspective: I grew up in and around the military, I understand military command structures and I see them as distinct from our overall society. That doesn't mean that there is no place for that sort of structure within a society. Star Trek always appeared to me as representing that military structure within the overall structure of the Federation's society. In fact, most members of the Federation were not members of anything military-like (or so it's claimed in the show, you don't really see too much outside the ship and non-Federation planets). The ship, the Enterprise, never seemed like a metaphor for anything (the Federation, on the other hand, was clearly meant as an analog to the the US and most of Western Europe, or the direction Rodenberry thought they were headed). > I've also seen it referred to as such by people wanting to create the perfect society. I do not doubt that you've seen this. But I've, personally, only heard and read people reference the Federation as a perfect society, not the Enterprise. Until today.
- skookumchuck 9y ago
  > Until today. Not much is ever seen of the Federation in ST. But the parent I replied to, and its parent, are referring to the Enterprise. Also, when I've seen references to ST as the model of utopia, Captain Kirk is often talked about front and center. Clearly, they are referring to the society on the Enterprise. You can also see in this article cited later in this discussion: http://grantland.com/features/next-generation-turns-25/ http://grantland.com/features/next-generation-turns-25/ with quotes like this: "and Picard’s personification of enlightened humanism"
  - kolpa 9y ago
    Picard was a model of a good leader. That doesn't mean a spaceship command is a model for how all society functions.
icantdrive55 9y ago
What I find ironic is on the set William Shatner was a dictator on set too. Get had huge amount of power on that set. I never understood why the other actors didn't seem to like the guy, until I heard this, 'He would refuse to do an episode if he didn't have more face time.' It really bothered me when I heard that. As a kid, I worshiped the guy. I remember being in 7th grade, and a kid asked me why I wore a tan polyester tee shirt--every day. My response, because the Hang Ten shirt reminds me of something Capt. Kirk would wear. The kids laid into me, but since I was stronger, it didn't go too far. My sexy science teacher overheard the conversation, and made me her assistant. My God did I want her to molest me in that supply room. (Different time folks.). Well she never did, but she shared my love of Star Trek. We used to talk about the good episodes while cleaning Pyrex. Boy do I miss her. I remember my heart was broken when I saw her at the beach with her boyfriend. They were kissing. I remember wishing I was older.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Jtsummers 9y ago

> That's correct, but the Enterprise was clearly written as a metaphor for the perfect society. My perspective: I grew up in and around the military, I understand military command structures and I see them as distinct from our overall society. That doesn't mean that there is no place for that sort of structure within a society. Star Trek always appeared to me as representing that military structure within the overall structure of the Federation's society. In fact, most members of the Federation were not members of anything military-like (or so it's claimed in the show, you don't really see too much outside the ship and non-Federation planets). The ship, the Enterprise, never seemed like a metaphor for anything (the Federation, on the other hand, was clearly meant as an analog to the the US and most of Western Europe, or the direction Rodenberry thought they were headed). > I've also seen it referred to as such by people wanting to create the perfect society. I do not doubt that you've seen this. But I've, personally, only heard and read people reference the Federation as a perfect society, not the Enterprise. Until today.

skookumchuck 9y ago
> Until today. Not much is ever seen of the Federation in ST. But the parent I replied to, and its parent, are referring to the Enterprise. Also, when I've seen references to ST as the model of utopia, Captain Kirk is often talked about front and center. Clearly, they are referring to the society on the Enterprise. You can also see in this article cited later in this discussion: http://grantland.com/features/next-generation-turns-25/ http://grantland.com/features/next-generation-turns-25/ with quotes like this: "and Picard’s personification of enlightened humanism"
- kolpa 9y ago
  Picard was a model of a good leader. That doesn't mean a spaceship command is a model for how all society functions.

icantdrive55 9y ago

What I find ironic is on the set William Shatner was a dictator on set too. Get had huge amount of power on that set. I never understood why the other actors didn't seem to like the guy, until I heard this, 'He would refuse to do an episode if he didn't have more face time.' It really bothered me when I heard that. As a kid, I worshiped the guy. I remember being in 7th grade, and a kid asked me why I wore a tan polyester tee shirt--every day. My response, because the Hang Ten shirt reminds me of something Capt. Kirk would wear. The kids laid into me, but since I was stronger, it didn't go too far. My sexy science teacher overheard the conversation, and made me her assistant. My God did I want her to molest me in that supply room. (Different time folks.). Well she never did, but she shared my love of Star Trek. We used to talk about the good episodes while cleaning Pyrex. Boy do I miss her. I remember my heart was broken when I saw her at the beach with her boyfriend. They were kissing. I remember wishing I was older.