4 ms·

Stealing a coat or possessing 1/2 and ounce of marijuana are generally not felonies. Stealing would be larceny and there are cost thresholds associated with th

Stealing a coat or possessing 1/2 and ounce of marijuana are generally not felonies. Stealing would be larceny and there are cost thresholds associated with that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony

jamesblonde 9y ago
What about 3 strikes in many States?
- thathappened 9y ago
  Sympathy for habitual criminals?
- bilbo0s 9y ago
  I understand your point. But I think the problem actually arises long before strike number three. In most cases, it's ONE strike and you're out as far as "bad social credit score" goes. It's just going to be VERY difficult for you to secure employment, or even decent housing, with that conviction on your record. Just one of the hard realities of the legal system.
- DamnYuppie 9y ago
  I am not sure I follow your question as it is very open ended. Are you asking if I am in favor of incarcerating criminals who continually commit violent felonies?
- vondur 9y ago
  Originally, the 3 strikes laws were to be used only against violent felonies. I'm not sure how they were able to include non violent offenses to the list.
  - labster 9y ago
    Easy. Find one example of someone who stole something three times, then later murdered someone. Scare people with this fact. Make up a theory about how larceny is a gateway to violence. This is, exactly, how the immigration debate is being held in DC. One undocumented shot and killed a citizen by accident, and now we're supposed to kick all immigrants out. Visceral emotion is a great tool to optimize society for corner cases.
mikeash 9y ago
In Virginia, felony larceny starts at $200, easily within coat range. I once had jury duty and was faced with the prospect of sentencing the defendant to up to 20 years in prison for the crime of receiving stolen goods valued at least $200. I got rejected from the jury, probably because I said I couldn’t possibly consider 20 years in prison for that.
- lxmorj 9y ago
  I feel like at that point, it'd be morally correct to lie to get into the jury...
  - davrosthedalek 9y ago
    My English might fail me here, but if you think about a 20 year sentence and find it not adequate to the crime, wouldn't you have "considered" it? I can understand why the question is asked though. The jury is there to find facts, i.e. define what has happened. The judge will then find the "correct" sentence if found guilty. The jury should not be swayed to a not guilty finding if they believe a guilty would be correct, just because the possible maximum sentence is too long, even if it would not be imposed in the case at hand anyway.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Virginia is unique here. Juries perform sentencing, not just finding of guilt. That’s why they asked the question.
      - davrosthedalek 9y ago
        Interesting. It certainly brings the risk of vengeful sentencing. But that brings me back to my original question: Would they have lied if they would have said "I would consider 20 years", already having made up their mind about it?
        mikeash 9y ago
jdietrich 9y ago
Virginia and New Jersey have felony larceny thresholds of $200; Massachusetts draws the line at $250. Arizona, Oklahoma and Tennessee all class possession of half an ounce of marijuana as a felony. Several states make possession of any amount within proximity of a school, church or park a felony. There are countless examples of misdemeanour possession being trumped-up to felony possession with intent based on very flimsy grounds. This is all nitpicky and arbitrary, which is largely my point. The line between misdemeanour and felony is thin, but the consequences of crossing it are severe. In one state, you might get a $50 fine; in the next, you might be barred from voting or lose your green card.
- IncRnd 9y ago
  I think you're missing the overall point. It doesn't matter whether the demarcation is $200, $250, or $3000 between a misdemeanor and a felony. It is more important that a person has trafficked in stolen goods. For that reason, lowering the limit of a misdemeanor is far more likely than raising it. Besides, different states have different laws. This isn't arbitrary but how our country was designed to work.
jhayward 9y ago
A state employee in Texas was charged with a felony for making a $0.25 personal call on a state owned telephone.
somecontext 9y ago
The threshold was $100 in Louisiana in 1996 for the case referenced: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16607471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16607471

jamesblonde 9y ago

What about 3 strikes in many States?

thathappened 9y ago
Sympathy for habitual criminals?
bilbo0s 9y ago
I understand your point. But I think the problem actually arises long before strike number three. In most cases, it's ONE strike and you're out as far as "bad social credit score" goes. It's just going to be VERY difficult for you to secure employment, or even decent housing, with that conviction on your record. Just one of the hard realities of the legal system.
DamnYuppie 9y ago
I am not sure I follow your question as it is very open ended. Are you asking if I am in favor of incarcerating criminals who continually commit violent felonies?
vondur 9y ago
Originally, the 3 strikes laws were to be used only against violent felonies. I'm not sure how they were able to include non violent offenses to the list.
- labster 9y ago
  Easy. Find one example of someone who stole something three times, then later murdered someone. Scare people with this fact. Make up a theory about how larceny is a gateway to violence. This is, exactly, how the immigration debate is being held in DC. One undocumented shot and killed a citizen by accident, and now we're supposed to kick all immigrants out. Visceral emotion is a great tool to optimize society for corner cases.

mikeash 9y ago

In Virginia, felony larceny starts at $200, easily within coat range. I once had jury duty and was faced with the prospect of sentencing the defendant to up to 20 years in prison for the crime of receiving stolen goods valued at least $200. I got rejected from the jury, probably because I said I couldn’t possibly consider 20 years in prison for that.

lxmorj 9y ago
I feel like at that point, it'd be morally correct to lie to get into the jury...
- davrosthedalek 9y ago
  My English might fail me here, but if you think about a 20 year sentence and find it not adequate to the crime, wouldn't you have "considered" it? I can understand why the question is asked though. The jury is there to find facts, i.e. define what has happened. The judge will then find the "correct" sentence if found guilty. The jury should not be swayed to a not guilty finding if they believe a guilty would be correct, just because the possible maximum sentence is too long, even if it would not be imposed in the case at hand anyway.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Virginia is unique here. Juries perform sentencing, not just finding of guilt. That’s why they asked the question.
    - davrosthedalek 9y ago
      Interesting. It certainly brings the risk of vengeful sentencing. But that brings me back to my original question: Would they have lied if they would have said "I would consider 20 years", already having made up their mind about it?
      - mikeash 9y ago

jdietrich 9y ago

Virginia and New Jersey have felony larceny thresholds of $200; Massachusetts draws the line at $250. Arizona, Oklahoma and Tennessee all class possession of half an ounce of marijuana as a felony. Several states make possession of any amount within proximity of a school, church or park a felony. There are countless examples of misdemeanour possession being trumped-up to felony possession with intent based on very flimsy grounds. This is all nitpicky and arbitrary, which is largely my point. The line between misdemeanour and felony is thin, but the consequences of crossing it are severe. In one state, you might get a $50 fine; in the next, you might be barred from voting or lose your green card.

IncRnd 9y ago
I think you're missing the overall point. It doesn't matter whether the demarcation is $200, $250, or $3000 between a misdemeanor and a felony. It is more important that a person has trafficked in stolen goods. For that reason, lowering the limit of a misdemeanor is far more likely than raising it. Besides, different states have different laws. This isn't arbitrary but how our country was designed to work.

jhayward 9y ago

A state employee in Texas was charged with a felony for making a $0.25 personal call on a state owned telephone.

somecontext 9y ago

The threshold was $100 in Louisiana in 1996 for the case referenced: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16607471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16607471