7 ms·

What was the hostile part? The "Dont tell me its a state problem?" I mean the man punts everything to the state, I had to preempt

sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
But it didn't work, right? He turned your attempt at preemption into a distraction from your point. I don't know how best to handle these things, but what I might have said is something like, "<Why it's important that bus and bike lanes not be blocked.> <What you invented, the results.> <Would the city consider investing in an invention like mine, or else what are we going to do to reduce the rate at which these blockages occur?>" FTR, I'm totally in favor of the automatic enforcement you describe! I'd also like to mostly or entirely remove free parking from the city.
- Bellspringsteen 9y ago
  Yeah, good point. Maybe I should have tried to be less accusatory.
  - dopamean 9y ago
    Being any amount of accusatory is counterproductive when you want someone to honestly answer a question in any context.
    - nemild 9y ago
      From Abraham Lincoln in 1842, speaking about his preferred approach: It is an old and a true maxim, that a "drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall." So with men. If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart, which, say what he will, is the great highroad to his reason, and which, when once gained, you will find but little trouble in convincing his judgment of the justice of your cause, if indeed that cause really be a just one. On the contrary, assume to dictate to his judgment, or to command his action, or to mark him as one to be shunned and despised, and he will retreat within himself, close all the avenues to his head and his heart; and though your cause be naked truth itself, transformed to the heaviest lance, harder than steel, and sharper than steel can be made, and though you throw it with more than Herculean force and precision, you shall be no more be able to pierce him, than to penetrate the hard shell of a tortoise with a rye straw. http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/temperance.htm http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/tempera...
      - kolpa 9y ago
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562214/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562214/ > A common expression would have us believe that ‘you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar’. But this is not true in the case of the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster (xkcd, 2007). Yes, NIH cited XKCD https://xkcd.com/357/ https://xkcd.com/357/
        hueving 9y ago
        Missing the forest for the trees.
        sah2ed 9y ago
        I don't think that applies here since the poster didn't disagree with the excerpt, they only pointed to a correction -- the fact that an aspect of conventional wisdom had been rendered untrue via research. The link to xkcd-inspired research was useful.
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
  - sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
    I make the similar mistakes all the time in my personal and professional life. It's an easy one to do.
  - dahart 9y ago
    How happy were you with his answer? It seemed fairly reasonable, he pushed back a bit and matched your tone I think, but overall sounded like he's very much on your side to me regarding the larger problem. I feel like he deflected a little by emphasizing accidents over blockages, without acknowledging much that blockages push bikes into dangerous situations. But I'd probably agree that prioritizing safety over annoyances is reasonable.
  - hitekker 9y ago
    That you can take criticism and admit to some fault in a public forum already puts your rhetoric above those of most commenters-- myself included. I hope you can effect the political change you seek.
- Klinky 9y ago
  Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If the goal was to imply to the audience listening that the mayor likes to pass people's issues onto the state instead of addressing them, then that goal was accomplished successfully. Not bringing it up would have simply resulted in the mayor passing the buck without the audience being aware of that context. Calling a politician on a radio call in show is typically very unlikely to result in any actual action, on any issue, regardless of tact taken. Making the audience aware of the problem, and your distaste for the mayor's proposed solutions ,may be more useful to one's goals. I also don't think pimping your product on a radio call in show is very tactful either.
- briandear 9y ago
  If we remove free parking from the city does that apply to bikes as well?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
unclesaamm 9y ago
It's absolutely warranted and you did great. Everyone else on Hacker News is commenting as if perfect communication would have solved this issue. What they don't understand is the political reality of the situation - that in no universe of conversations, would Bill DeBlasio have admitted on recording that he was wrong or whatever. In my experience, when politicians act defensively and cornered, they often go and make changes behind the scenes later. When you let them go without a scuffle they will view you as a non-threat. So great job, and cool project!
aidenn0 9y ago
The "NYPD is unwilling and unable to enforce" part was the hostile part. That comes of as "traffic cops aren't doing their job" when I think you meant "without 100x more traffic cops we can't even make a dent in this"

sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago

But it didn't work, right? He turned your attempt at preemption into a distraction from your point. I don't know how best to handle these things, but what I might have said is something like, "<Why it's important that bus and bike lanes not be blocked.> <What you invented, the results.> <Would the city consider investing in an invention like mine, or else what are we going to do to reduce the rate at which these blockages occur?>" FTR, I'm totally in favor of the automatic enforcement you describe! I'd also like to mostly or entirely remove free parking from the city.

Bellspringsteen 9y ago
Yeah, good point. Maybe I should have tried to be less accusatory.
- dopamean 9y ago
  Being any amount of accusatory is counterproductive when you want someone to honestly answer a question in any context.
  - nemild 9y ago
    From Abraham Lincoln in 1842, speaking about his preferred approach: It is an old and a true maxim, that a "drop of honey catches more flies than a gallon of gall." So with men. If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey that catches his heart, which, say what he will, is the great highroad to his reason, and which, when once gained, you will find but little trouble in convincing his judgment of the justice of your cause, if indeed that cause really be a just one. On the contrary, assume to dictate to his judgment, or to command his action, or to mark him as one to be shunned and despised, and he will retreat within himself, close all the avenues to his head and his heart; and though your cause be naked truth itself, transformed to the heaviest lance, harder than steel, and sharper than steel can be made, and though you throw it with more than Herculean force and precision, you shall be no more be able to pierce him, than to penetrate the hard shell of a tortoise with a rye straw. http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/temperance.htm http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/tempera...
    - kolpa 9y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562214/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4562214/ > A common expression would have us believe that ‘you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar’. But this is not true in the case of the fruit fly Drosophila melanogaster (xkcd, 2007). Yes, NIH cited XKCD https://xkcd.com/357/ https://xkcd.com/357/
      - hueving 9y ago
        Missing the forest for the trees.
        sah2ed 9y ago
        I don't think that applies here since the poster didn't disagree with the excerpt, they only pointed to a correction -- the fact that an aspect of conventional wisdom had been rendered untrue via research. The link to xkcd-inspired research was useful.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
- sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
  I make the similar mistakes all the time in my personal and professional life. It's an easy one to do.
- dahart 9y ago
  How happy were you with his answer? It seemed fairly reasonable, he pushed back a bit and matched your tone I think, but overall sounded like he's very much on your side to me regarding the larger problem. I feel like he deflected a little by emphasizing accidents over blockages, without acknowledging much that blockages push bikes into dangerous situations. But I'd probably agree that prioritizing safety over annoyances is reasonable.
- hitekker 9y ago
  That you can take criticism and admit to some fault in a public forum already puts your rhetoric above those of most commenters-- myself included. I hope you can effect the political change you seek.
Klinky 9y ago
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If the goal was to imply to the audience listening that the mayor likes to pass people's issues onto the state instead of addressing them, then that goal was accomplished successfully. Not bringing it up would have simply resulted in the mayor passing the buck without the audience being aware of that context. Calling a politician on a radio call in show is typically very unlikely to result in any actual action, on any issue, regardless of tact taken. Making the audience aware of the problem, and your distaste for the mayor's proposed solutions ,may be more useful to one's goals. I also don't think pimping your product on a radio call in show is very tactful either.
briandear 9y ago
If we remove free parking from the city does that apply to bikes as well?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

unclesaamm 9y ago

It's absolutely warranted and you did great. Everyone else on Hacker News is commenting as if perfect communication would have solved this issue. What they don't understand is the political reality of the situation - that in no universe of conversations, would Bill DeBlasio have admitted on recording that he was wrong or whatever. In my experience, when politicians act defensively and cornered, they often go and make changes behind the scenes later. When you let them go without a scuffle they will view you as a non-threat. So great job, and cool project!

aidenn0 9y ago

The "NYPD is unwilling and unable to enforce" part was the hostile part. That comes of as "traffic cops aren't doing their job" when I think you meant "without 100x more traffic cops we can't even make a dent in this"