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It isn't the beginning of a new caste system. It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy) Co
by hosh 9y ago
It isn't the beginning of a new caste system.
It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals. (Not that I agree with Confucian philosophy)
Confucian philosophy had influenced Chinese culture for several millennial, and the oral tradition was that Confucius (Kong Tzu) himself distilled what went into the Analects from much older rites and cultures.
The basic idea here is that humans don't start out as humans, and require socialization to uplift them and refine their spirit to that of "human". To accomplish this as a society, there is an emphasis on education and behavioral control.
This has permeated many levels of the Chinese culture. What is novel here is the use of Big Data and AI to enforce these.
Confucious's philosophy and its descendent philosophies, though pervasive, are not the only streams that have influenced Chinese culture. If you are looking for echoes of classical liberalism, you'd find it more at home with the Lao-tzu, and the ethos of "let's improve our society with technology" would find an echo with Mo-tzu.
> Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.'
This already happens before Big Data, both in China and in Taiwan. It happened with other cultures that were influenced by ancient Chinese Confucian thought -- Korea and Japan.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago> It is more like a modern iteration of very old Confucian ideals Confucious also said "those who cannot forgive others break the bridge over which they themselves must pass.”
- pishpash 9y agoHaving your nosy neighborly aunties edumacating you is one thing. Having some bureaucrat or AI far away instilling virtues with no reciprocal responsibilities is something only a pompous madman can dream of, and not Confucian at all.
- z2 9y agoMy very vague and armchair-esque fear is that sophisticated technology is actually the missing gap of truly and seamlessly centralizing control and power. Communism is awkward because it's actually quite hard to understand, much less control a human being in all his or her subtleties and motivations. It's easy to point to terrible, heavy-handed actions, but with an increasingly pervasive and subtle system, can we even tell if we're being gently guided to act for it?
- bcoates 9y agoBecause 'nudging' is trivially tested, has been repeatedly tried, and does not work.
- trendia 9y agoThis is analogous to saying: "Jesus teaches us to be moral, so the inquisition is just letting the government teach us to be more moral."
- ulzeraj 9y agoIn other words, fascism, that is, the belief that a society needs very strict moral guides and leadership to thrive.
- philwelch 9y agoI think there's more to fascism than that.
- nabla9 9y agoI think this relates more to Chinese Legalism than Confucian ideals. This social credit is just what the "men of methods" would prescribe replace aristocracy with a bureaucracy. You get automatic four year ban for certain services if social credit drops below certain level.
- hosh 9y agoHmmm. I think you are right. Thanks for clarifying.
- stale2002 9y agoA caste system dressed up in pretty philosophies is still a caste system. If this is a modern iteration of confucianism, then confucianism is equivalent to a caste system.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> A caste system dressed up in pretty philosophies is still a caste system. Isn't every caste system.dressed up like that?