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The deadly toll of street racing in Los Angeles

111 points by wallflower 9y ago

paulcole 9y ago
> 17 years. 179 victims. 260 total deaths from all car crashes in 2016 alone. If street racing is out of control, just plain driving is off the charts. Who is downvoting this and why?
- jandrese 9y ago
  I think if you compare crash-per-mile-driven or crash-per-hour those figures won't even be in the same universe.
  - jessaustin 9y ago
    Transportation is not the point of street racing, so of what possible significance would that comparison be?
    - jandrese 9y ago
      They both involve the same activity--operating a motor vehicle in a city environment. Besides, the original comparison was between transportation and street racing!
      - cryptoz 9y ago
        > They both involve the same activity--operating a motor vehicle in a city environment That is not the same activity. You have generalized so far beyond the original point it no longer makes sense. Is a speed eating competition where you eat as many hotdogs as possible in a NY hot dog establishment the same activity as making homemade salad with your family at home? They're both "eating food in a city" right? They are not the same activity, and street racing is not the same activity as commuting home or going to the store for toilet paper.
      - jessaustin 9y ago
        The original comparison was between two dangerous activities, not between two dangerous modes of transportation the danger of which might be informatively amortized across the quantity of transportation provided.
  - paulcole 9y ago
    "Vision Zero is working in partnership with the City of Los Angeles to end all traffic deaths and serious injuries by 2025." http://visionzero.lacity.org/ http://visionzero.lacity.org/ The goal isn't to minimize deaths per mile driven or per hour, it's to eliminate deaths period.
    - jandrese 9y ago
      That's a lofty goal, and probably impossible with the improvements they are suggesting. Just reducing speed (increasing congestion) and installing more traffic lights/crosswalks won't eliminate all traffic deaths. To actually accomplish something like that you would need to radically redesign the city. Eliminate non-autonomous cars, build a really first class subway system (bus accidents are a thing!), go all-in on elevated walkways, invent some kind of really effective suicide counseling, etc... That said, even if they "fail" and only eliminate 90% of the traffic fatalities/major injuries that's still a big win IMHO.
      - francisofascii 9y ago
        I think speed reduction is the biggest. Yes, zero does sound almost impossible. US commercial air travel had zero deaths in 2017, so that should give some confidence.
        jandrese 9y ago
        Commercial air travel doesn't have to deal with pedestrians. That's basically my option B from above. Ban all surface transportation and massively expand the subway system. Also redesign the subway system so it can deliver packages now. Absolutely no chance in hell of getting that done by 2025. Oh, and also redesign all subway platforms so people can't use them to commit suicide. Or maybe they're trying the London option and making gridlock so bad that no car ever gets enough speed to seriously injure a pedestrian.
- Libturd 9y ago
  because people are retards
- nxc18 9y ago
  You're getting downvoted because driving and street racing are totally incomparable. Street racing is a distinct, illegal, reckless behavior with no possible upside (for society) whatsoever. Even worse, many of the victims are not involved in the driving - those victims were slaughtered randomly. Their lives were risked with no possible benefit for anyone. The fatalities for street racing should be zero, because it shouldn't be happening. It's really fucking annoying that I put my life at risk every time I drive on the 10 (or anywhere else) and there are other drivers who are deliberately increasing that risk. Reckless driving with fatalities is murder. That should be your comparison.
- BigChiefSmokem 9y ago
  I've been noticing a lot of "down vote wars" on HN lately. I can't tell if it's the increase in users (popularity) or the posts/climate that are becoming more unreasonable. Chicken and egg problem.
palewire 9y ago
I worked on the data analysis for this story, which was published at a Jupyter Notebook of Python code. https://github.com/datadesk/street-racing-analysis/blob/master/notebook.ipynb https://github.com/datadesk/street-racing-analysis/blob/mast... If you have any questions, shoot.
- ChuckMcM 9y ago
  This article (http://ktla.com/2017/04/03/l-a-traffic-deaths-rose-43-percent-in-2016/ http://ktla.com/2017/04/03/l-a-traffic-deaths-rose-43-percen...) says there were 260 traffic fatalities in 2016 on LA's streets. From the street racing article it appears that roughly 11 of those were related to street racing? So 5% ?
  - palewire 9y ago
    I appreciate your effort to bring some context to the analysis. However, as we unpack in the story, our total is likely an undercount due to the problems in tracking street racing related crashes.
    - sndean 9y ago
      Just as a reference, I found this statement in a thesis [1]: > In the event of a collision, neither drivers nor passengers are willing to admit to engaging in street racing. This can partially explain the low incidence of casualties due to street racing reported in the literature. For example, the Office of Traffic Safety in California, in one of its recent publications, acknowledged that fatalities and injuries due to illegal street racing are significantly underreported due to the issues with reporting and suggested a need for a reporting system reform. Basically, in some of the crashes, the participants are unlikely to call 911. And it's possible that some of the normal (non-street racing) crashes/fatalities are actually street racing-related. [1] https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3107&context=etd https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3107&conte...
    - ChuckMcM 9y ago
      And I appreciate that folks have gone out and tried to analyze something which has not been really visible before. Let's say it is 3x more likely, that means its 15%. I think the story is important and meaningful, I feel the narrative it supplies is disingenuous. A lot of people die on streets due to cars. That we do track, both motor vehicle and pedestrian fatalities. It is a stupidly large number. The narrative that "we", the community, the society, the people who exist in the same space and time, need to do something about "this" is, for me, a function of impact. The ability for the community to take action is a limited resource. There is only so much tax money, there are only so many cops, there is only so much technology. And we have to choose where that finite resource is invested in order to maximize the protection, health, and well being of the community from which that resource is drawn. Because I see the problem this way, any narrative that suggests investing a larger fraction on a smaller problem, makes me wonder how much worse the other problems those resources had been applied to becomes when we take them away to focus on this smaller problem. So I would ask the people, are you prepared to have over all vehicle fatalities double while fatalities due to street racing go to zero? When street racing is 5, 10, 15, even 25 percent of the problem that calculus means more dead people, more people losing children and loved ones to a vehicle fatality. There are at least 5 direct calls for resources in that article[1]. They are calls for more police, more tracking, more infrastructure. It is a simple and common narrative, "My problems are really important so you should agree to spend more money on them rather than the other things you are spending them on." Anyone who has lived in California for a while realizes that there are only two choices, raise taxes to increase the size of the resource pool (and then have factions fight over the raises) or let some existing priority slip while you focus on a different one. It is also annoying (but understandable) to me that these articles cluster around the March/April time frame because that is after the Governor has submitted their budget and the legislators are figuring out where to send the money. If the article was arguing for more resources on vehicle fatalities, I could understand that. We've got way too many people who don't even follow basic road rules. So if you spent all your taxes on that and no additional on the street racing scene and achieved a 10% reduction in fatalities you would have saved more lives than completely wiping out street racing would. That makes it a better investment overall for a limited resource. [1] Passages in the article that suggest that applying more resources to this problem would ameliorate it: A few law enforcement agencies have assigned officers to the task force. But some agencies say they lack manpower. Efforts to place a similar unit in the Valley, another racing hot zone, were abandoned for lack of staff, a street racing investigator said. “You can’t solve a problem that you don’t measure,” Englander said. Neither the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department nor the Long Beach Police Department, two of the largest agencies in the region, have officers assigned to the county task force. County deputies are being trained to recognize vehicles that have been modified for racing, but, Det. Christine Ostrander said, “our deputies are just overworked, understaffed.”
ggg9990 9y ago
> More than half were 21 or younger, including two children, ages 4 and 8, killed along with their mother. Municipal funding idea: execute the street racers who kill people in a public event and sell tickets. I’d pay $100.
darawk 9y ago
179 people over 17 years? In a major metropolitan city? That doesn't seem like much of a problem at all.
- iooi 9y ago
  Yes, "Out of Control" seems a bit exaggerated in this context. For some comparison, 14,156 people died of cancer in 2014 [1] in Los Angeles county alone. There were 58 gun-related deaths in just 4 months in LA [2]. [1] https://www.cancer.org/content/dam/cancer-org/online-documents/en/pdf/reports/california-facts-figures-2017.pdf https://www.cancer.org/content/dam/cancer-org/online-documen... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/06/us/las-vegas-gun-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/06/us/las-vegas-...
  - cat199 9y ago
    > Yes, "Out of Control" seems a bit exaggerated in this context. it's also a 'catchy' title when talking about losing control of a car..
    - wmeredith 9y ago
      It's also sensationalist clickbait and why we can't have nice things in modern media. For some perspective: someone drowns in Orange County (pool, bathtub, etc...) every 9 days. That's 689 people over the same period. Is bathing out of control? This article is fear-mongering nonsense. Or at the very least, the title is. https://www.ocregister.com/2015/04/13/whiting-someone-drowns-in-orange-county-every-9-days/ https://www.ocregister.com/2015/04/13/whiting-someone-drowns...
- cat199 9y ago
  179 fatalities, specifically related to street racing? ~10 a year? How many other accidents and just dangerous crap is happening on an ongoing basis for that many fatalities to occur? What would you expect to be 'much of a problem'? 10,000?
  - 9y ago
lowbloodsugar 9y ago
You will notice that the police, on the one hand say that street racing is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent lives at risk (not just the racers), and at the same time, justify high speed chases, risking pedestrians lives for the sake of catching petty criminals. Young people don't make the best decisions. But televised high speed chases (fictional and real) sure look cool and exciting to me. Finally, San Diego has reduced street racing by providing a cheap, legal outlet for it. [1] But we used to have more drag strips and tracks. They get closed down as real-estate needs expand. If I want to road race, the nearest tracks require driving through LA. To be clear, I'm not making excuses for kids. I'm not saying "well they should be allowed to race because they can't elsewhere" or "we should be lenient on them". I'm absolutely against street racing. So, in conclusion, give racers more legal opportunities on the one hand, and stop glorifying/titilating/excusing car chases on the other. [1] https://www.sandiego.gov/stadium/event/tenants/racelegal https://www.sandiego.gov/stadium/event/tenants/racelegal
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > You will notice that the police, on the one hand say that street racing is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent lives at risk (not just the racers), and at the same time, justify high speed chases, risking pedestrians lives for the sake of catching petty criminals. Well, except that over the last few decades, high speed chases have fallen out of favor, and most police agencies have adopted very restrictive pursuit policies.
  - djrogers 9y ago
    Doesn't appear to be the case in Southern California - I see one on TV pretty much every time I'm down there...
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Doesn't appear to be the case in Southern California It definitely is for every non-federal LE agency in Southern California. > I see one on TV pretty much every time I'm down there... Yes, SoCal is a region with close to 25 million people; things that are done on extremely limited circumstances with tight controls still do happen somewhere in that region with some frequency, and are note worthy enoguh that they get covered by TV news.
djsumdog 9y ago
There are more legitimate outlets. SCCA Autocross / Solo II events are a fun way to race in a controlled environment. Most courses are one car at a time, in parking lots set up to keep people under 40mph and are more about skill than speed. People who really get hardcore into Autocross sometimes move on to road courses, buying roll cages and paying fees (or if you're lucky, finding a sponsor) to race against others on a closed track. At some SCCA events you'll see all the legit autocrosses lined up and all the kids with their fast/furious wanna be shit rides around the outside. Once when we were going over the rules, one such car pulled in and the organizer said, "Looks like there's another one for the cardboard wing class." and we all laughed. So at least some of these racers know about these events and just don't participate, but really these kids should be encourage to join more legit events, take on Solo II or drag racing or rally cross, and yea .. it will take some more money and time, but you'll get involved with a group of people who aren't idiots and who are responsible about their motorsports. If you do something stupid and wreck, at least you only hurt yourself and not some kid on the street.
- rwbt 9y ago
  Street racing is akin to a Drag race. Autocross type circuit events are more technical with tight corners and I suspect many street racers won't be interested in them. A better solution is to increase access to drag strips. I believe many PD's in Nevada and Florida already do events like this https://jalopnik.com/5236317/drag-race-a-cop-in-beat-the-heat-challenge https://jalopnik.com/5236317/drag-race-a-cop-in-beat-the-hea...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- djrogers 9y ago
  > At some SCCA events you'll see all the legit autocrosses lined up and all the kids with their fast/furious wanna be shit rides around the outside. Once when we were going over the rules, one such car pulled in and the organizer said, "Looks like there's another one for the cardboard wing class." and we all laughed. That kind of attitude is a big reason why SCCA events don't attract more people. Hey SCCA dude - we all know the E30 you track is legit, but you don't have to be a dick about it to people who have different tastes...
nimbius 9y ago
as an Angeleno myself, i have to say the statistic seem par for a city of more than five million. street racing is an easy demon to hunt in Los Angeles as its a rule that only a few people break but that has a high profile due to its nature. Its flashy and comes with its own set of blockbuster movies and spinoffs. Cops would enjoy a bit of high speed sports car chase I suspect...not so much cranking out tickets for low speed fender benders though perhaps. Target something like distracted driving and you'll find far fewer of us are willing to tolerate the kind of crackdown required to reduce the number of injuries and fatalities related to it. We love to text and drive, talk on our cellphones, and even read our e-books while stuck in traffic. Then again who knows. Many of us would appreciate seeing the CHP print up a few fresh ones for the classic and clueless luxury sedan drivers mashing away at their iphones and ignoring the green light.
- allsunny 9y ago
  Are you a local (like grew up in LA) or just live there now? I grew up there (5th generation) - I remember street racing being a big deal in my teen years and I think some investment in educating the youth would be worthwhile. 3 kids from my school I grew up with were killed in a street race in 11th grade. Sure, if it's this or that sort of thing, invest in the distracted drivers, but I think the county can work on both...
  - mulmen 9y ago
    You're right of course. We have the resources to solve multiple problems at once. This is the problem with people who say Elon Musk is wasting his energy trying to get to Mars. That isn't happening at the expense of cancer research. We're doing both. Real change happens when people get involved. Yes, cancer or obesity kill more people in LA than street racing. Saying that doesn't do anything to help victims of street racing crashes, cancer or obesity. If we see a problem we should make an individual value judgement and get involved in fixing it if we think it is important and we can help. It doesn't have to be the biggest problem to be worthwhile effort.
- mulmen 9y ago
  Why pick on luxury sedan drivers?
olivermarks 9y ago
The National Hot Rod Association (NHRA) was founded to get racing off the California streets in 1951. Virtually all the drag strips this sanctioning body promoted races at in urban areas have closed (Lions was a famous track in Long Beach sponsored by the Lions club to get racers off the streets for example). Today youtube is full of street racing for money videos and there is a whole genre of fake reality TV shows about street racing glamorizing it. Examples https://youtu.be/Lf9wlvQuxGA https://youtu.be/Lf9wlvQuxGA https://youtu.be/Ltc7e9IIPVc https://youtu.be/Ltc7e9IIPVc The NHRA needs to get back to their core remit and support more legitimate racing venues and local authorities need to help this to happen. There is a thriving electric street drag racing scene too as traction control on Teslas makes it much easier to launch and go fast with no talent, winning races.
- olivermarks 9y ago
  The TV shows that promote racing on the streets were challenged by the NHRA in 2015. https://jalopnik.com/nhra-cracks-down-on-the-dumbest-fake-street-racing-show-1688422495 https://jalopnik.com/nhra-cracks-down-on-the-dumbest-fake-st... These TV shows are a disgrace and are getting gullible viewers killed emulating a fake show racing their commuter cars on the streets
  - olivermarks 9y ago
    Gutted Tesla street racing https://youtu.be/ARzujfRiQ3c https://youtu.be/ARzujfRiQ3c 4.5 million youtube views...
    - jimmy1 9y ago
      To be fair to them, this looks like it is at night in a closed off road to what appears to be an industrial complex. About as safe as you can get, save a drag strip. They also had lighting and people all down the strip.
      - gonesilent 9y ago
        Most races take place in these style locations. Lining the street with spectators is what gets them killed. No crash guards or other defences.
trisimix 9y ago
The part I hate most about these stories is it's a waste of life for everyone involved. Assuming the driver isnt a psychopath of some sort they will probably be regretting this every moment for the rest of their life which may be mostly in prison. Manslaughter is manslaughter but I wish we had an ethical way to reform these criminals. In terms of society impact its as if more people died that night than actually did.
loeg 9y ago
179 people since 2000 is not a lot for LA? That's ~10 annually, or 0.00025% of the population. The total traffic fatality rate is about 240-260/year[0], or ~25x that. It seems remarkable that street racing is only ~4% of the total. I guess the idea is that these deaths are preventable? So are the rest of the traffic fatalities. These deaths are caused by adolescents making irrational choices? That's probably not unique to this type of collision either. I don't understand the goal of the focus piece other than to shift blame off the majority of traffic fatalities onto some unlikable population (street racers) that isn't actually responsible for a large portion of the deaths. [0]: https://www.dailynews.com/2018/01/30/traffic-deaths-in-la-are-down-but-well-short-of-citys-goal-whats-next-for-vision-zero/ https://www.dailynews.com/2018/01/30/traffic-deaths-in-la-ar...
erik_landerholm 9y ago
179 people in 17-18 years...basically no one.

111 points by wallflower 9y ago

> 17 years. 179 victims. 260 total deaths from all car crashes in 2016 alone. If street racing is out of control, just plain driving is off the charts. Who is downvoting this and why?

jandrese 9y ago
I think if you compare crash-per-mile-driven or crash-per-hour those figures won't even be in the same universe.
- jessaustin 9y ago
  Transportation is not the point of street racing, so of what possible significance would that comparison be?
  - jandrese 9y ago
    They both involve the same activity--operating a motor vehicle in a city environment. Besides, the original comparison was between transportation and street racing!
    - cryptoz 9y ago
      > They both involve the same activity--operating a motor vehicle in a city environment That is not the same activity. You have generalized so far beyond the original point it no longer makes sense. Is a speed eating competition where you eat as many hotdogs as possible in a NY hot dog establishment the same activity as making homemade salad with your family at home? They're both "eating food in a city" right? They are not the same activity, and street racing is not the same activity as commuting home or going to the store for toilet paper.
    - jessaustin 9y ago
      The original comparison was between two dangerous activities, not between two dangerous modes of transportation the danger of which might be informatively amortized across the quantity of transportation provided.
- paulcole 9y ago
  "Vision Zero is working in partnership with the City of Los Angeles to end all traffic deaths and serious injuries by 2025." http://visionzero.lacity.org/ http://visionzero.lacity.org/ The goal isn't to minimize deaths per mile driven or per hour, it's to eliminate deaths period.
  - jandrese 9y ago
    That's a lofty goal, and probably impossible with the improvements they are suggesting. Just reducing speed (increasing congestion) and installing more traffic lights/crosswalks won't eliminate all traffic deaths. To actually accomplish something like that you would need to radically redesign the city. Eliminate non-autonomous cars, build a really first class subway system (bus accidents are a thing!), go all-in on elevated walkways, invent some kind of really effective suicide counseling, etc... That said, even if they "fail" and only eliminate 90% of the traffic fatalities/major injuries that's still a big win IMHO.
    - francisofascii 9y ago
      I think speed reduction is the biggest. Yes, zero does sound almost impossible. US commercial air travel had zero deaths in 2017, so that should give some confidence.
      - jandrese 9y ago
        Commercial air travel doesn't have to deal with pedestrians. That's basically my option B from above. Ban all surface transportation and massively expand the subway system. Also redesign the subway system so it can deliver packages now. Absolutely no chance in hell of getting that done by 2025. Oh, and also redesign all subway platforms so people can't use them to commit suicide. Or maybe they're trying the London option and making gridlock so bad that no car ever gets enough speed to seriously injure a pedestrian.
Libturd 9y ago
because people are retards
nxc18 9y ago
You're getting downvoted because driving and street racing are totally incomparable. Street racing is a distinct, illegal, reckless behavior with no possible upside (for society) whatsoever. Even worse, many of the victims are not involved in the driving - those victims were slaughtered randomly. Their lives were risked with no possible benefit for anyone. The fatalities for street racing should be zero, because it shouldn't be happening. It's really fucking annoying that I put my life at risk every time I drive on the 10 (or anywhere else) and there are other drivers who are deliberately increasing that risk. Reckless driving with fatalities is murder. That should be your comparison.
BigChiefSmokem 9y ago
I've been noticing a lot of "down vote wars" on HN lately. I can't tell if it's the increase in users (popularity) or the posts/climate that are becoming more unreasonable. Chicken and egg problem.

palewire 9y ago

I worked on the data analysis for this story, which was published at a Jupyter Notebook of Python code. https://github.com/datadesk/street-racing-analysis/blob/master/notebook.ipynb https://github.com/datadesk/street-racing-analysis/blob/mast... If you have any questions, shoot.

ChuckMcM 9y ago
This article (http://ktla.com/2017/04/03/l-a-traffic-deaths-rose-43-percent-in-2016/ http://ktla.com/2017/04/03/l-a-traffic-deaths-rose-43-percen...) says there were 260 traffic fatalities in 2016 on LA's streets. From the street racing article it appears that roughly 11 of those were related to street racing? So 5% ?
- palewire 9y ago
  I appreciate your effort to bring some context to the analysis. However, as we unpack in the story, our total is likely an undercount due to the problems in tracking street racing related crashes.
  - sndean 9y ago
    Just as a reference, I found this statement in a thesis [1]: > In the event of a collision, neither drivers nor passengers are willing to admit to engaging in street racing. This can partially explain the low incidence of casualties due to street racing reported in the literature. For example, the Office of Traffic Safety in California, in one of its recent publications, acknowledged that fatalities and injuries due to illegal street racing are significantly underreported due to the issues with reporting and suggested a need for a reporting system reform. Basically, in some of the crashes, the participants are unlikely to call 911. And it's possible that some of the normal (non-street racing) crashes/fatalities are actually street racing-related. [1] https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3107&context=etd https://ir.lib.uwo.ca/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3107&conte...
  - ChuckMcM 9y ago
    And I appreciate that folks have gone out and tried to analyze something which has not been really visible before. Let's say it is 3x more likely, that means its 15%. I think the story is important and meaningful, I feel the narrative it supplies is disingenuous. A lot of people die on streets due to cars. That we do track, both motor vehicle and pedestrian fatalities. It is a stupidly large number. The narrative that "we", the community, the society, the people who exist in the same space and time, need to do something about "this" is, for me, a function of impact. The ability for the community to take action is a limited resource. There is only so much tax money, there are only so many cops, there is only so much technology. And we have to choose where that finite resource is invested in order to maximize the protection, health, and well being of the community from which that resource is drawn. Because I see the problem this way, any narrative that suggests investing a larger fraction on a smaller problem, makes me wonder how much worse the other problems those resources had been applied to becomes when we take them away to focus on this smaller problem. So I would ask the people, are you prepared to have over all vehicle fatalities double while fatalities due to street racing go to zero? When street racing is 5, 10, 15, even 25 percent of the problem that calculus means more dead people, more people losing children and loved ones to a vehicle fatality. There are at least 5 direct calls for resources in that article[1]. They are calls for more police, more tracking, more infrastructure. It is a simple and common narrative, "My problems are really important so you should agree to spend more money on them rather than the other things you are spending them on." Anyone who has lived in California for a while realizes that there are only two choices, raise taxes to increase the size of the resource pool (and then have factions fight over the raises) or let some existing priority slip while you focus on a different one. It is also annoying (but understandable) to me that these articles cluster around the March/April time frame because that is after the Governor has submitted their budget and the legislators are figuring out where to send the money. If the article was arguing for more resources on vehicle fatalities, I could understand that. We've got way too many people who don't even follow basic road rules. So if you spent all your taxes on that and no additional on the street racing scene and achieved a 10% reduction in fatalities you would have saved more lives than completely wiping out street racing would. That makes it a better investment overall for a limited resource. [1] Passages in the article that suggest that applying more resources to this problem would ameliorate it: A few law enforcement agencies have assigned officers to the task force. But some agencies say they lack manpower. Efforts to place a similar unit in the Valley, another racing hot zone, were abandoned for lack of staff, a street racing investigator said. “You can’t solve a problem that you don’t measure,” Englander said. Neither the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department nor the Long Beach Police Department, two of the largest agencies in the region, have officers assigned to the county task force. County deputies are being trained to recognize vehicles that have been modified for racing, but, Det. Christine Ostrander said, “our deputies are just overworked, understaffed.”

ggg9990 9y ago

> More than half were 21 or younger, including two children, ages 4 and 8, killed along with their mother. Municipal funding idea: execute the street racers who kill people in a public event and sell tickets. I’d pay $100.

darawk 9y ago

179 people over 17 years? In a major metropolitan city? That doesn't seem like much of a problem at all.

iooi 9y ago
Yes, "Out of Control" seems a bit exaggerated in this context. For some comparison, 14,156 people died of cancer in 2014 [1] in Los Angeles county alone. There were 58 gun-related deaths in just 4 months in LA [2]. [1] https://www.cancer.org/content/dam/cancer-org/online-documents/en/pdf/reports/california-facts-figures-2017.pdf https://www.cancer.org/content/dam/cancer-org/online-documen... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/06/us/las-vegas-gun-deaths.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/10/06/us/las-vegas-...
- cat199 9y ago
  > Yes, "Out of Control" seems a bit exaggerated in this context. it's also a 'catchy' title when talking about losing control of a car..
  - wmeredith 9y ago
    It's also sensationalist clickbait and why we can't have nice things in modern media. For some perspective: someone drowns in Orange County (pool, bathtub, etc...) every 9 days. That's 689 people over the same period. Is bathing out of control? This article is fear-mongering nonsense. Or at the very least, the title is. https://www.ocregister.com/2015/04/13/whiting-someone-drowns-in-orange-county-every-9-days/ https://www.ocregister.com/2015/04/13/whiting-someone-drowns...
cat199 9y ago
179 fatalities, specifically related to street racing? ~10 a year? How many other accidents and just dangerous crap is happening on an ongoing basis for that many fatalities to occur? What would you expect to be 'much of a problem'? 10,000?
- 9y ago

lowbloodsugar 9y ago

You will notice that the police, on the one hand say that street racing is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent lives at risk (not just the racers), and at the same time, justify high speed chases, risking pedestrians lives for the sake of catching petty criminals. Young people don't make the best decisions. But televised high speed chases (fictional and real) sure look cool and exciting to me. Finally, San Diego has reduced street racing by providing a cheap, legal outlet for it. [1] But we used to have more drag strips and tracks. They get closed down as real-estate needs expand. If I want to road race, the nearest tracks require driving through LA. To be clear, I'm not making excuses for kids. I'm not saying "well they should be allowed to race because they can't elsewhere" or "we should be lenient on them". I'm absolutely against street racing. So, in conclusion, give racers more legal opportunities on the one hand, and stop glorifying/titilating/excusing car chases on the other. [1] https://www.sandiego.gov/stadium/event/tenants/racelegal https://www.sandiego.gov/stadium/event/tenants/racelegal

dragonwriter 9y ago
> You will notice that the police, on the one hand say that street racing is incredibly dangerous and puts innocent lives at risk (not just the racers), and at the same time, justify high speed chases, risking pedestrians lives for the sake of catching petty criminals. Well, except that over the last few decades, high speed chases have fallen out of favor, and most police agencies have adopted very restrictive pursuit policies.
- djrogers 9y ago
  Doesn't appear to be the case in Southern California - I see one on TV pretty much every time I'm down there...
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Doesn't appear to be the case in Southern California It definitely is for every non-federal LE agency in Southern California. > I see one on TV pretty much every time I'm down there... Yes, SoCal is a region with close to 25 million people; things that are done on extremely limited circumstances with tight controls still do happen somewhere in that region with some frequency, and are note worthy enoguh that they get covered by TV news.

djsumdog 9y ago

There are more legitimate outlets. SCCA Autocross / Solo II events are a fun way to race in a controlled environment. Most courses are one car at a time, in parking lots set up to keep people under 40mph and are more about skill than speed. People who really get hardcore into Autocross sometimes move on to road courses, buying roll cages and paying fees (or if you're lucky, finding a sponsor) to race against others on a closed track. At some SCCA events you'll see all the legit autocrosses lined up and all the kids with their fast/furious wanna be shit rides around the outside. Once when we were going over the rules, one such car pulled in and the organizer said, "Looks like there's another one for the cardboard wing class." and we all laughed. So at least some of these racers know about these events and just don't participate, but really these kids should be encourage to join more legit events, take on Solo II or drag racing or rally cross, and yea .. it will take some more money and time, but you'll get involved with a group of people who aren't idiots and who are responsible about their motorsports. If you do something stupid and wreck, at least you only hurt yourself and not some kid on the street.

rwbt 9y ago
Street racing is akin to a Drag race. Autocross type circuit events are more technical with tight corners and I suspect many street racers won't be interested in them. A better solution is to increase access to drag strips. I believe many PD's in Nevada and Florida already do events like this https://jalopnik.com/5236317/drag-race-a-cop-in-beat-the-heat-challenge https://jalopnik.com/5236317/drag-race-a-cop-in-beat-the-hea...
- deleted 9y ago
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djrogers 9y ago
> At some SCCA events you'll see all the legit autocrosses lined up and all the kids with their fast/furious wanna be shit rides around the outside. Once when we were going over the rules, one such car pulled in and the organizer said, "Looks like there's another one for the cardboard wing class." and we all laughed. That kind of attitude is a big reason why SCCA events don't attract more people. Hey SCCA dude - we all know the E30 you track is legit, but you don't have to be a dick about it to people who have different tastes...

nimbius 9y ago

as an Angeleno myself, i have to say the statistic seem par for a city of more than five million. street racing is an easy demon to hunt in Los Angeles as its a rule that only a few people break but that has a high profile due to its nature. Its flashy and comes with its own set of blockbuster movies and spinoffs. Cops would enjoy a bit of high speed sports car chase I suspect...not so much cranking out tickets for low speed fender benders though perhaps. Target something like distracted driving and you'll find far fewer of us are willing to tolerate the kind of crackdown required to reduce the number of injuries and fatalities related to it. We love to text and drive, talk on our cellphones, and even read our e-books while stuck in traffic. Then again who knows. Many of us would appreciate seeing the CHP print up a few fresh ones for the classic and clueless luxury sedan drivers mashing away at their iphones and ignoring the green light.

allsunny 9y ago
Are you a local (like grew up in LA) or just live there now? I grew up there (5th generation) - I remember street racing being a big deal in my teen years and I think some investment in educating the youth would be worthwhile. 3 kids from my school I grew up with were killed in a street race in 11th grade. Sure, if it's this or that sort of thing, invest in the distracted drivers, but I think the county can work on both...
- mulmen 9y ago
  You're right of course. We have the resources to solve multiple problems at once. This is the problem with people who say Elon Musk is wasting his energy trying to get to Mars. That isn't happening at the expense of cancer research. We're doing both. Real change happens when people get involved. Yes, cancer or obesity kill more people in LA than street racing. Saying that doesn't do anything to help victims of street racing crashes, cancer or obesity. If we see a problem we should make an individual value judgement and get involved in fixing it if we think it is important and we can help. It doesn't have to be the biggest problem to be worthwhile effort.
mulmen 9y ago
Why pick on luxury sedan drivers?

olivermarks 9y ago

The National Hot Rod Association (NHRA) was founded to get racing off the California streets in 1951. Virtually all the drag strips this sanctioning body promoted races at in urban areas have closed (Lions was a famous track in Long Beach sponsored by the Lions club to get racers off the streets for example). Today youtube is full of street racing for money videos and there is a whole genre of fake reality TV shows about street racing glamorizing it. Examples https://youtu.be/Lf9wlvQuxGA https://youtu.be/Lf9wlvQuxGA https://youtu.be/Ltc7e9IIPVc https://youtu.be/Ltc7e9IIPVc The NHRA needs to get back to their core remit and support more legitimate racing venues and local authorities need to help this to happen. There is a thriving electric street drag racing scene too as traction control on Teslas makes it much easier to launch and go fast with no talent, winning races.

olivermarks 9y ago
The TV shows that promote racing on the streets were challenged by the NHRA in 2015. https://jalopnik.com/nhra-cracks-down-on-the-dumbest-fake-street-racing-show-1688422495 https://jalopnik.com/nhra-cracks-down-on-the-dumbest-fake-st... These TV shows are a disgrace and are getting gullible viewers killed emulating a fake show racing their commuter cars on the streets
- olivermarks 9y ago
  Gutted Tesla street racing https://youtu.be/ARzujfRiQ3c https://youtu.be/ARzujfRiQ3c 4.5 million youtube views...
  - jimmy1 9y ago
    To be fair to them, this looks like it is at night in a closed off road to what appears to be an industrial complex. About as safe as you can get, save a drag strip. They also had lighting and people all down the strip.
    - gonesilent 9y ago
      Most races take place in these style locations. Lining the street with spectators is what gets them killed. No crash guards or other defences.

trisimix 9y ago

The part I hate most about these stories is it's a waste of life for everyone involved. Assuming the driver isnt a psychopath of some sort they will probably be regretting this every moment for the rest of their life which may be mostly in prison. Manslaughter is manslaughter but I wish we had an ethical way to reform these criminals. In terms of society impact its as if more people died that night than actually did.

loeg 9y ago

179 people since 2000 is not a lot for LA? That's ~10 annually, or 0.00025% of the population. The total traffic fatality rate is about 240-260/year[0], or ~25x that. It seems remarkable that street racing is only ~4% of the total. I guess the idea is that these deaths are preventable? So are the rest of the traffic fatalities. These deaths are caused by adolescents making irrational choices? That's probably not unique to this type of collision either. I don't understand the goal of the focus piece other than to shift blame off the majority of traffic fatalities onto some unlikable population (street racers) that isn't actually responsible for a large portion of the deaths. [0]: https://www.dailynews.com/2018/01/30/traffic-deaths-in-la-are-down-but-well-short-of-citys-goal-whats-next-for-vision-zero/ https://www.dailynews.com/2018/01/30/traffic-deaths-in-la-ar...

erik_landerholm 9y ago

179 people in 17-18 years...basically no one.