5 ms·

Voters can sell their votes now. While unethical, it's not illegal and probably not worth combatting since, technically, that is the will of the voter.

vincnetas 9y ago
So this basically reduces democracy to "moneycrasy". Whoever has/can promise most money, wins. And then when they in power guess from where (whom) they will get back all the money that they spent? It's like saying, well it's your kidney, it should not be illegal to sell it...
- thaumasiotes 9y ago
  > So this basically reduces democracy to "moneycrasy". "Plutocracy".
brianberns 9y ago
In the U.S., I believe it's illegal to buy or sell votes. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election/2000/10/want_to_sell_your_vote_not_so_fast.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election...
KMag 9y ago
But if properly implemented (use metal detectors to keep cameras and phones out of the voting booths), it's difficult to prove how you voted using paper ballots / old fashioned mechanical voting machines. I don't see much problem in selling your vote if there's no way to verify that you're not ripping off the person buying the vote.
- hansjorg 9y ago
  No need for expensive high tech solutions. Just provide one of each possible ballot and a pen in the privacy of a booth. Fold the ballot, step out of the booth and give it to one of two officials which puts it in the ballot box for you. Now you can take as many pictures you like of whatever ballot which proves nothing.
  - KMag 9y ago
    Elsewhere in this discussion, I suggested the same thing, except using envelopes instead of folding. You also need to separately tally the other N-1 discarded ballots to make sure they're not being brought out of the polling station. (Discarded ballots brought out of the polling station prove to jackbooted thugs that you didn't vote for the opposition.) Though, I don't understand the purpose of the pen in the proposal. There's already one of every possible ballot, so you don't use the pen to mark candidates. You don't write your name on the ballot, as that would ruin anonymity. You don't cross-out the ballots that you don't cast, as that would open back up the weakness to photography. So, how is the pen used? Also, what's the purpose of having the official put the ballot in the box instead of having the voter put the ballot in the box? Is it to prevent multiple votes from being cast? You need to have a discard box for the unused ballots and tally those discarded ballots in order to detect when the jackbooted thugs force people to walk out of the polls with their discarded ballots in order to prove how they didn't vote. Once you have this, you've also got multi-vote detection.
  - ihm 9y ago
    This scheme doesn't allow you to verify your vote was counted at the end of the day though.
- dorgo 9y ago
  Most people don't vote at all. Find a big group of poor people, give them 10$ each for voting for your candidate and hope that they do what they were paid for.
nileshtrivedi 9y ago
If voters can sell their vote, they can also be COERCED to sell their vote at an unfair price. Coercion can disguise itself as "free will" when combined with privacy.

vincnetas 9y ago

So this basically reduces democracy to "moneycrasy". Whoever has/can promise most money, wins. And then when they in power guess from where (whom) they will get back all the money that they spent? It's like saying, well it's your kidney, it should not be illegal to sell it...

thaumasiotes 9y ago
> So this basically reduces democracy to "moneycrasy". "Plutocracy".

brianberns 9y ago

In the U.S., I believe it's illegal to buy or sell votes. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election/2000/10/want_to_sell_your_vote_not_so_fast.html http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/net_election...

KMag 9y ago

But if properly implemented (use metal detectors to keep cameras and phones out of the voting booths), it's difficult to prove how you voted using paper ballots / old fashioned mechanical voting machines. I don't see much problem in selling your vote if there's no way to verify that you're not ripping off the person buying the vote.

hansjorg 9y ago
No need for expensive high tech solutions. Just provide one of each possible ballot and a pen in the privacy of a booth. Fold the ballot, step out of the booth and give it to one of two officials which puts it in the ballot box for you. Now you can take as many pictures you like of whatever ballot which proves nothing.
- KMag 9y ago
  Elsewhere in this discussion, I suggested the same thing, except using envelopes instead of folding. You also need to separately tally the other N-1 discarded ballots to make sure they're not being brought out of the polling station. (Discarded ballots brought out of the polling station prove to jackbooted thugs that you didn't vote for the opposition.) Though, I don't understand the purpose of the pen in the proposal. There's already one of every possible ballot, so you don't use the pen to mark candidates. You don't write your name on the ballot, as that would ruin anonymity. You don't cross-out the ballots that you don't cast, as that would open back up the weakness to photography. So, how is the pen used? Also, what's the purpose of having the official put the ballot in the box instead of having the voter put the ballot in the box? Is it to prevent multiple votes from being cast? You need to have a discard box for the unused ballots and tally those discarded ballots in order to detect when the jackbooted thugs force people to walk out of the polls with their discarded ballots in order to prove how they didn't vote. Once you have this, you've also got multi-vote detection.
- ihm 9y ago
  This scheme doesn't allow you to verify your vote was counted at the end of the day though.
dorgo 9y ago
Most people don't vote at all. Find a big group of poor people, give them 10$ each for voting for your candidate and hope that they do what they were paid for.

nileshtrivedi 9y ago

If voters can sell their vote, they can also be COERCED to sell their vote at an unfair price. Coercion can disguise itself as "free will" when combined with privacy.