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If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Why dont I invest in door locks? The US should really look into

If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Why dont I invest in door locks? The US should really look into a more security focused infrastructure. This year the bad guy is Russia, but last year it was China and next year maybe it will be Iranian hackers. I understand that security is constant game of cat and mouse but when I see and hear of companies running Wimdows XP in 2018... it's like we're not even trying. Might as well leave the doors unlocked.

duck 9y ago
> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Yes, you can and should.
- akhilcacharya 9y ago
  I'm in full agreement, and I'm shocked that this argument is used so much. Even when faced with a vulnerability, it is absolutely the thief's responsibility if they take advantage of the vulnerability for their own gain.
  - jstarfish 9y ago
    The adversary in question isn't accountable to our laws. There is no "thief's responsibility." There's just "you got pwned, you have no recourse, now it's your problem." For all intents and purposes, that thief may as well be a crocodile who slips in during the night and eats your children. We can put it on trial or negotiate with it about as effectively. Was Equifax blameless in the events leading up to their breach? They could have prevented it, but they didn't. Or do we only expect responsibility from criminals and corporations?
    - yborg 9y ago
      So your argument is that Russia or any other nation state that behaves this way is an amoral entity like a crocodile? This is absurd, nations consist of human beings that can understand concepts of right or wrong and behave appropriately. If your argument is correct, and the adversary is amoral and driven only by the opportunity to take advantage of weakness, the other nations at risk by this entity should logically band together and destroy it.
      - jstarfish 9y ago
        If they behaved appropriately, we wouldn't be debating their capacity to destroy our infrastructure for the fun of it. We aren't at war with them. Where is the sense of right and wrong? Why are they trying to harm us? Why won't they extradite the persons responsible for their alleged damage to date so we may seek justice? I'm not advocating a crocodile hunt FFS, only that if they aren't going to play by our rules then maybe we should take responsibility for our own security by locking shit down, and stop acting like pointing the finger at the bad guy of the day somehow shields us from the consequences of mal-intent.
        Farlin 9y ago
        You can play offense and defense... saying it’s either or is a very simplistic mindset. The international community has the capability to both secure from bad actors, and punish bad actors. Sometimes force is necessary and it’s prudent that it be used with Russia.
    - McFarlin 9y ago
      So Russia is a mindless predator in the international swimming pool? Time to kill the croc.
    - Farlin 9y ago
      So Russia is a mindless predator in the international swimming pool? Time to kill the croc.
kurthr 9y ago
Yes, burglary is not only wrong, it's against the law. I agree that companies should do more about securing or disconnecting their networks, but I don't get to shoot someone just because they're so silly as not to be wearing a bullet proof vest.
notatoad 9y ago
Yes, you can and you should blame them. Crime isn't morally okay just because the victim hasn't protected themselves well enough. It doesn't matter whether it's hacking a poorly secured network, robbing a poorly secured house, or raping a provocatively dressed woman.
Smoosh 9y ago
So, you're saying that America deserved to get raped because they went out dressed in a revealing outfit?
rdtsc 9y ago
> can I really blame Sure you can blame them and blame yourself. It doesn't have to be either or. Depending if you think internet is a safe small town neighborhood or a hostile place full of bad actors constantly trying to gain entry into your systems. In the first case, nobody would say you're irresponsible because well it is unprecedented for burglary to happen there, in the second case the perpetrator would be guilty, but you'd be laughed at and ridiculed for being irresponsible as well. If you happen to hold someone else info (cough Equifax cough) you might even be sued, though ... you probably also have friends in the government and tons of lawyers to not really be bothered by it.
dguaraglia 9y ago
> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Sure you can! Robbing is not something that happens by accident, and neither is hacking. I agree that the US should invest heavily in improving security, but taking the view that "pfff, who cares who did it!" is a terrible idea.
djrogers 9y ago
> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Yes. To think otherwise removes the social construct that theft is wrong.

duck 9y ago

> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Yes, you can and should.

akhilcacharya 9y ago
I'm in full agreement, and I'm shocked that this argument is used so much. Even when faced with a vulnerability, it is absolutely the thief's responsibility if they take advantage of the vulnerability for their own gain.
- jstarfish 9y ago
  The adversary in question isn't accountable to our laws. There is no "thief's responsibility." There's just "you got pwned, you have no recourse, now it's your problem." For all intents and purposes, that thief may as well be a crocodile who slips in during the night and eats your children. We can put it on trial or negotiate with it about as effectively. Was Equifax blameless in the events leading up to their breach? They could have prevented it, but they didn't. Or do we only expect responsibility from criminals and corporations?
  - yborg 9y ago
    So your argument is that Russia or any other nation state that behaves this way is an amoral entity like a crocodile? This is absurd, nations consist of human beings that can understand concepts of right or wrong and behave appropriately. If your argument is correct, and the adversary is amoral and driven only by the opportunity to take advantage of weakness, the other nations at risk by this entity should logically band together and destroy it.
    - jstarfish 9y ago
      If they behaved appropriately, we wouldn't be debating their capacity to destroy our infrastructure for the fun of it. We aren't at war with them. Where is the sense of right and wrong? Why are they trying to harm us? Why won't they extradite the persons responsible for their alleged damage to date so we may seek justice? I'm not advocating a crocodile hunt FFS, only that if they aren't going to play by our rules then maybe we should take responsibility for our own security by locking shit down, and stop acting like pointing the finger at the bad guy of the day somehow shields us from the consequences of mal-intent.
      - Farlin 9y ago
        You can play offense and defense... saying it’s either or is a very simplistic mindset. The international community has the capability to both secure from bad actors, and punish bad actors. Sometimes force is necessary and it’s prudent that it be used with Russia.
  - McFarlin 9y ago
    So Russia is a mindless predator in the international swimming pool? Time to kill the croc.
  - Farlin 9y ago
    So Russia is a mindless predator in the international swimming pool? Time to kill the croc.

kurthr 9y ago

Yes, burglary is not only wrong, it's against the law. I agree that companies should do more about securing or disconnecting their networks, but I don't get to shoot someone just because they're so silly as not to be wearing a bullet proof vest.

notatoad 9y ago

Yes, you can and you should blame them. Crime isn't morally okay just because the victim hasn't protected themselves well enough. It doesn't matter whether it's hacking a poorly secured network, robbing a poorly secured house, or raping a provocatively dressed woman.

Smoosh 9y ago

So, you're saying that America deserved to get raped because they went out dressed in a revealing outfit?

rdtsc 9y ago

> can I really blame Sure you can blame them and blame yourself. It doesn't have to be either or. Depending if you think internet is a safe small town neighborhood or a hostile place full of bad actors constantly trying to gain entry into your systems. In the first case, nobody would say you're irresponsible because well it is unprecedented for burglary to happen there, in the second case the perpetrator would be guilty, but you'd be laughed at and ridiculed for being irresponsible as well. If you happen to hold someone else info (cough Equifax cough) you might even be sued, though ... you probably also have friends in the government and tons of lawyers to not really be bothered by it.

dguaraglia 9y ago

> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Sure you can! Robbing is not something that happens by accident, and neither is hacking. I agree that the US should invest heavily in improving security, but taking the view that "pfff, who cares who did it!" is a terrible idea.

djrogers 9y ago

> If I leave my door unlocked can I really blame <bad person> for opening my door and robbing me? Yes. To think otherwise removes the social construct that theft is wrong.