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Anyone interested in seeing the, "proof" that Russia was responsible can see it here: https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A https://www.us-cert.gov/nca
by StanislavPetrov 9y ago
Anyone interested in seeing the, "proof" that Russia was responsible can see it here:
https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A https://www.us-cert.gov/ncas/alerts/TA18-074A
As with virtually every other accusation of "Russian hacking", there is actually nothing presented suggesting that it was Russians that performed these hacks, let alone conclusively proving that. The line of "reasoning" used to accuse Russia of being responsible is, yet again, the same bit of tired tripe. It boils down to, "this attack uses methods that we suspect Russians have used in the past, and we assert that Russians would have liked to do this hack, therefore we have proof that it was Russians".
>Malicious email campaigns dating back to late 2015 were used to gain entry into organizations in the United States, Turkey and Switzerland, and likely other countries, Symantec said at the time, though it did not name Russia as the culprit.
In other words, these were generic fishing attacks that could have been performed by anyone. Since anyone and everyone uses these fishing attacks, we had no idea who it was in 2015. However, now that everyone is blaming everything on Russia, we can safely do so without even casual scrutiny of our claims.
- arthurcolle 9y agoyou're repeating yourself
- exabrial 9y agoWhile HN has a liberal bias, it is worth reading and understanding the opposite side's motivation for their opinion. Instead of voting him down, it would be more academic to understand and engage in civil discussions.
- ComradeTaco 9y agoIt's infinitely harder to have a reasonable discussion when there's a troll factory pumping out bad faith arguments in great volume. [1]https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/some-russians-see-u-s-investigation-into-russian-election-meddling-as-a-soap-ope https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/...
- chokolad 9y agoAre you implying that HN is full of trolls from the said factory ?
- ComradeTaco 9y agoTrolls from the Internet Research Agency (the troll farm) have handles tumblr, facebook, reddit, as stated by those who previously worked at the Agency. I do not think it is unreasonable to assume, given HN's popularity and how intensive Russian efforts have been in regards to social media, that some accounts are maintained to manipulate opinions, just like any other social media site.
- chokolad 9y agoCare to point to such "bad faith" arguments by IRA trolls in comments here ? Or are you using it as an excuse to not have a debate?
- ComradeTaco 9y agoAll my evidence is anecdotal, and I have no means of confirming it on my own. When I first looked over this post, there were 3-4 comments, all seemingly pro-russia. I see some points being made that are remarkably similar to official Russian positions on issues. Its really similar to when I see a post about China. A whole bunch of users surface abruptly with lots of comments favorable to China. Both of these countries have large, well documented operations to comment extensively on Western media sources. And I'm sure that many HN users like Russia and like China. But it's hard to shake the feeling that there is some astroturfing going on.
- StanislavPetrov 9y ago>all seemingly pro-russia. Its extremely unfortunate that skepticism of government and/or media declarations are being characterized as "Pro-Russian". Exercising basic critical thinking skills and demanding evidence for accusations is something that we should all practice, in every case, but especially when serious accusations are leveled. I welcome you to re-read my post. I'm not pushing a "Pro-Russia" position. I'm pushing a "pro-intelligent person" position. I linked directly to the evidence they offered to support their assertions. I looked at the evidence they offered, did you? No evidence they presented suggested or concluded that Russians were responsible. Rather than responding intelligently by pointing to evidence that you think rebuts my assessment, you resort to questioning my motives.
- orbital-decay 9y agoIn a civil discussion, the whole notion of the opposite side whose points necessarily contradict yours and should be refuted can make the conversation counterproductive. Most of these political threads are useless for exactly this reason - they usually descend to participants getting locked inside their bubbles or even passively implying other participants are either bots or trolls, without any downvoting.
- StanislavPetrov 9y agoAll due respect, I'm not "the other side". Not much of a fan of political labels, but much closer to what's considered a classical liberal than anything else. The world isn't a binary place, nor is the political spectrum. I'm on the side of skepticism, critical thinking and logical consistency, while being the mortal enemy of hypocrisy. Were the Russians responsible for this hack? Its possible - but the baseless claims of our credibility-free government are worthless as far as proof goes - and it has nothing to do with partisanship. If there is proof, let them show us the proof and evaluate for ourselves. Its disturbing that this position is viewed by anyone as "Pro-Russian".