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Until and unless they actually test their "reverse-engineered" device with live subjects under similar conditions to what has been reported in Cuba, how valid i

by mkempe 9y ago

Until and unless they actually test their "reverse-engineered" device with live subjects under similar conditions to what has been reported in Cuba, how valid is that claim? Edit: this is, of course, a rhetorical question. The "reverse-engineered weapon" claim is clearly false.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
robotkdick 9y ago
I was also looking for the results of a human experiment. Math is great and all, but if there's no human symptoms that mimic the original reports, this thesis is just a science experiment.
- Firerouge 9y ago
  But what University is going to approve a human testing study of a weapon with possible lasting health implications...?
  - robotkdick 9y ago
    How can they really know they "reverse engineered" the "weapon" unless they have sync with actual human symptoms. It's not the study (or university policies) I take issue with, it's the way they present their study as conclusive. It's not conclusive.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - corpMaverick 9y ago
    Universidad de la Habana ?
smogcutter 9y ago
They make this point themselves in the article: they can account for the unusual recording from Cuba, but not for people's symptoms. >> While the math leads us to believe that intermodulation distortion is a likely culprit in the Cuban case, we haven’t ruled out other null hypotheses that may account for the discomfort that diplomats felt. For example, maybe the tones people heard didn’t cause their symptoms but were just another symptom, a clue to the real cause.
- mehrdadn 9y ago
  > While the math leads us to believe that intermodulation distortion is a likely culprit in the Cuban case, we haven’t ruled out other null hypotheses that may account for the discomfort that diplomats felt. For example, maybe the tones people heard didn’t cause their symptoms but were just another symptom, a clue to the real cause. Unless what I read was just plain lies, I don't see how this is plausible. Just reading The Guardian's article [1] I see no room for other plausible explanations in every case... remember there were at least 21 US victims (!!): The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room. Soon came the hearing loss, and the speech problems, symptoms both similar and altogether different from others among at least 21 US victims in an astonishing international mystery still unfolding in Cuba. The top US diplomat has called them “health attacks”. New details learned by the Associated Press indicate at least some of the incidents were confined to specific rooms or even parts of rooms with laser-like specificity, baffling US officials who say the facts and the physics don’t add up. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-sonic-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-son...
  - tgsovlerkhgsel 9y ago
    Sounds a lot like some sort of constructive interference. Or highly directional microwaves of course.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
flatline 9y ago
It seems like the ultrasonic emissions were more likely a byproduct of whatever caused the physical symptoms, though the article makes a hand-wavey reference to people getting ill from such emissions.
make3 9y ago
You don't need to burn someone alive to know that putting someone under certain heat conditions is going to kill them. Similarly, you don't need to actually expose people to crazy powerful sonic waves to know that they would suffer from it; just knowing that the waves were there and inferring how to generate them is enough. All of this is obvious though; you aren't being rational about this, like you have a dog in the race.
- mkempe 9y ago
  What's with the ad hominem? The authors themselves admit that their design and hypothetical weapon cannot account for the actual symptoms. Edit: when my kids finally convince me to get a dog for the family, I'll name it Truth, Facts, or Parmenides.
mkempe 9y ago
Note: the HN title has been changed from the original "How We Reverse Engineered the Cuban “Sonic Weapon” Attack" which is the actual title of that IEEE Spectrum article.

by mkempe 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

robotkdick 9y ago

I was also looking for the results of a human experiment. Math is great and all, but if there's no human symptoms that mimic the original reports, this thesis is just a science experiment.

Firerouge 9y ago
But what University is going to approve a human testing study of a weapon with possible lasting health implications...?
- robotkdick 9y ago
  How can they really know they "reverse engineered" the "weapon" unless they have sync with actual human symptoms. It's not the study (or university policies) I take issue with, it's the way they present their study as conclusive. It's not conclusive.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- corpMaverick 9y ago
  Universidad de la Habana ?

smogcutter 9y ago

They make this point themselves in the article: they can account for the unusual recording from Cuba, but not for people's symptoms. >> While the math leads us to believe that intermodulation distortion is a likely culprit in the Cuban case, we haven’t ruled out other null hypotheses that may account for the discomfort that diplomats felt. For example, maybe the tones people heard didn’t cause their symptoms but were just another symptom, a clue to the real cause.

mehrdadn 9y ago
> While the math leads us to believe that intermodulation distortion is a likely culprit in the Cuban case, we haven’t ruled out other null hypotheses that may account for the discomfort that diplomats felt. For example, maybe the tones people heard didn’t cause their symptoms but were just another symptom, a clue to the real cause. Unless what I read was just plain lies, I don't see how this is plausible. Just reading The Guardian's article [1] I see no room for other plausible explanations in every case... remember there were at least 21 US victims (!!): The blaring, grinding noise jolted the American diplomat from his bed in a Havana hotel. He moved just a few feet, and there was silence. He climbed back into bed. Inexplicably, the agonizing sound hit him again. It was as if he’d walked through some invisible wall cutting straight through his room. Soon came the hearing loss, and the speech problems, symptoms both similar and altogether different from others among at least 21 US victims in an astonishing international mystery still unfolding in Cuba. The top US diplomat has called them “health attacks”. New details learned by the Associated Press indicate at least some of the incidents were confined to specific rooms or even parts of rooms with laser-like specificity, baffling US officials who say the facts and the physics don’t add up. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-sonic-weapon-attacks-at-us-embassy-in-cuba-deepens https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/14/mystery-of-son...
- tgsovlerkhgsel 9y ago
  Sounds a lot like some sort of constructive interference. Or highly directional microwaves of course.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

flatline 9y ago

It seems like the ultrasonic emissions were more likely a byproduct of whatever caused the physical symptoms, though the article makes a hand-wavey reference to people getting ill from such emissions.

make3 9y ago

You don't need to burn someone alive to know that putting someone under certain heat conditions is going to kill them. Similarly, you don't need to actually expose people to crazy powerful sonic waves to know that they would suffer from it; just knowing that the waves were there and inferring how to generate them is enough. All of this is obvious though; you aren't being rational about this, like you have a dog in the race.

mkempe 9y ago
What's with the ad hominem? The authors themselves admit that their design and hypothetical weapon cannot account for the actual symptoms. Edit: when my kids finally convince me to get a dog for the family, I'll name it Truth, Facts, or Parmenides.

mkempe 9y ago

Note: the HN title has been changed from the original "How We Reverse Engineered the Cuban “Sonic Weapon” Attack" which is the actual title of that IEEE Spectrum article.