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Forgive me for this n00b question, but what do you get with ProtonMail (with respect to security) that you don't get with, say, gmail?

by tsax 9y ago

protonmail 9y ago
ProtonMail team here. Here is our assessment about how ProtonMail compares to Gmail from the security/privacy perspective: https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-vs-gmail-security/ https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-vs-gmail-security/
- bogomipz 9y ago
  >"No tracking and logging Google records literally every action done by its users. This includes your IP address, every search that you do, which emails you open, which websites you visit, and much more. ProtonMail takes the opposite approach and by default, does not monitor or record user activity, not even IP addresses." Has this been verified by an independent third party? Also how do you determine there's an issue with with IP prefixes in AS 15897 Vodaphone Turkey[1], if you don't log IP addresses? [1] https://bgpview.io/asn/15897 https://bgpview.io/asn/15897
  - Kliment 9y ago
    Not a user but I would guess follow up on user complaints
  - therein 9y ago
    They might be using some service that tries to access an endpoint of theirs from multiple AS across the world. Not sure if Catchpoint has a Vodafone TR endpoint.
  - Erlich_Bachman 9y ago
    > Has this been verified by an independent third party? For one thing, it seems to have been verified by the Turkish government, seing how gmail is not blocked, and protonmail is ;)
  - blablabla123 9y ago
    > Has this been verified by an independent third party? Which would that be? ;-) I use ProtonMail myself. I kind of doubt that all their promises are true. But at least it's an entity separate from Google. A few years ago my whole Internet life somehow went through Google, from Search over Mail up to News, Discussions, Drive, YouTube... I find it creepy that when I click an article in an online shop, not even buying it, a stupid ad of it might appear for a week. Even if you agree that ads have a purpose, there is no purpose for showing me an ad for a thing that I looked at myself already! I have no indication of ProtonMail doing anything in this direction (I see their ads only on protonmail.com), that's reason enough for me already. Also I trust them that their servers are not going to be hacked so that those contents will land on troyhunt.com.
kevinSuttle 9y ago
ProtonMail isn’t run by a data mining ad agency that works on military drones.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  Not but its been around now for 17 years without a major security breach.
  - joering2 9y ago
    Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know. But to answer OP: you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE, since some of your real messages could by accodent go to junk. With Proton once I delete a message, its gone forever since it was part of my internal encrypted blob of messages. once I logged off deleted message is gone.
    - bogomipz 9y ago
      >"Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know" Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets? >"you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE" Do you have a citation for this?
      - megous 9y ago
        > Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets? That's also the point. :) Why put your data into a service that has higher chance of being targetted (and you may never know if it was). Also if you're in control of the device, you'll be the one receiving the subpoena/search warrant (or a swat team), so you'll know if it was targetted.
  - mtgx 9y ago
    Except for that time when Google's data centers were completely owned by the NSA. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...
asp_hornet 9y ago
Encryption between protonmail accounts and when sending to non proton mail accounts: When you send an encrypted message to a non-ProtonMail user, they receive a link which loads the encrypted message onto their browser, which they can decrypt using a passphrase that you have shared with them. You can also send unencrypted messages to Gmail, Yahoo, Outlook and others, just like regular email.
JepZ 9y ago
I am neither a ProtonMail nor a Gmail user so this might be completely wrong, but as far as I understand it, the short answer to your question is: ProtonMail offers an easy access to a client which supports End-To-End encryption for your emails. So nobody besides the sender and the receiver can read the content of the email. Traditional emails are more or less plain text files which (usually) get encrypted for transfers between mail servers, but every mail server involved in the transmission can read the content.

Forgive me for this n00b question, but what do you get with ProtonMail (with respect to security) that you don't get with, say, gmail?

by tsax 9y ago

Forgive me for this n00b question, but what do you get with ProtonMail (with respect to security) that you don't get with, say, gmail?

protonmail 9y ago

ProtonMail team here. Here is our assessment about how ProtonMail compares to Gmail from the security/privacy perspective: https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-vs-gmail-security/ https://protonmail.com/blog/protonmail-vs-gmail-security/

bogomipz 9y ago
>"No tracking and logging Google records literally every action done by its users. This includes your IP address, every search that you do, which emails you open, which websites you visit, and much more. ProtonMail takes the opposite approach and by default, does not monitor or record user activity, not even IP addresses." Has this been verified by an independent third party? Also how do you determine there's an issue with with IP prefixes in AS 15897 Vodaphone Turkey[1], if you don't log IP addresses? [1] https://bgpview.io/asn/15897 https://bgpview.io/asn/15897
- Kliment 9y ago
  Not a user but I would guess follow up on user complaints
- therein 9y ago
  They might be using some service that tries to access an endpoint of theirs from multiple AS across the world. Not sure if Catchpoint has a Vodafone TR endpoint.
- Erlich_Bachman 9y ago
  > Has this been verified by an independent third party? For one thing, it seems to have been verified by the Turkish government, seing how gmail is not blocked, and protonmail is ;)
- blablabla123 9y ago
  > Has this been verified by an independent third party? Which would that be? ;-) I use ProtonMail myself. I kind of doubt that all their promises are true. But at least it's an entity separate from Google. A few years ago my whole Internet life somehow went through Google, from Search over Mail up to News, Discussions, Drive, YouTube... I find it creepy that when I click an article in an online shop, not even buying it, a stupid ad of it might appear for a week. Even if you agree that ads have a purpose, there is no purpose for showing me an ad for a thing that I looked at myself already! I have no indication of ProtonMail doing anything in this direction (I see their ads only on protonmail.com), that's reason enough for me already. Also I trust them that their servers are not going to be hacked so that those contents will land on troyhunt.com.

kevinSuttle 9y ago

ProtonMail isn’t run by a data mining ad agency that works on military drones.

bogomipz 9y ago
Not but its been around now for 17 years without a major security breach.
- joering2 9y ago
  Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know. But to answer OP: you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE, since some of your real messages could by accodent go to junk. With Proton once I delete a message, its gone forever since it was part of my internal encrypted blob of messages. once I logged off deleted message is gone.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    >"Well, my server runs for 19 years now without a major secuirty breach... so do I know" Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets? >"you cannot ever delete gmail message. Even spam is kept forever to comply with LE" Do you have a citation for this?
    - megous 9y ago
      > Do you really believe Gmail and your personal server possess the same value as targets? That's also the point. :) Why put your data into a service that has higher chance of being targetted (and you may never know if it was). Also if you're in control of the device, you'll be the one receiving the subpoena/search warrant (or a swat team), so you'll know if it was targetted.
- mtgx 9y ago
  Except for that time when Google's data centers were completely owned by the NSA. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-infiltrates-links-to-yahoo-google-data-centers-worldwide-snowden-documents-say/2013/10/30/e51d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-i...

asp_hornet 9y ago

Encryption between protonmail accounts and when sending to non proton mail accounts: When you send an encrypted message to a non-ProtonMail user, they receive a link which loads the encrypted message onto their browser, which they can decrypt using a passphrase that you have shared with them. You can also send unencrypted messages to Gmail, Yahoo, Outlook and others, just like regular email.

JepZ 9y ago

I am neither a ProtonMail nor a Gmail user so this might be completely wrong, but as far as I understand it, the short answer to your question is: ProtonMail offers an easy access to a client which supports End-To-End encryption for your emails. So nobody besides the sender and the receiver can read the content of the email. Traditional emails are more or less plain text files which (usually) get encrypted for transfers between mail servers, but every mail server involved in the transmission can read the content.