8 ms·
DNA tests can predict intelligence, scientists show for first time
- montrose 9y agoThis is novel, as far as I know: "And some of the genetic variants that are linked with an increase in intelligence are also linked with an increase in life expectancy."
- starrychloe 9y agoDarwin Awards and intelligence have a negative correlation.
- pmoriarty 9y agoPredict intelligence or predict IQ scores?
- omegaworks 9y agoThe definitions of intelligence these researchers choose to use are just as interesting as the predictive method. Intelligence is such an amorphous concept in our society.
- purple-again 9y agoIt’s more like food. Ice cream and broccoli are both food which makes it hard to say much interesting about food that’s universally applicable. Intelligence is a similarly high level word that just encompasses too many things.
- chiefalchemist 9y agoIt changes over time. It's cultural. What's labeled intelligence today might not be the case in the future.
- hyperdunc 9y agoIt's not as ephemeral as you might think. As long as humans have existed there have been cognitive traits that confer an advantage in competitive environments. But our understanding of these traits has improved.
- chiefalchemist 9y agoOk. Question: Critical thinking and problem solving, for me, fit your criteria. Are these nature or nurture? And what of drive and ambition? There are plenty of really smart people on the dole, yes? But they're probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time. How is an advantage an advantage if you're a genius ice sculpturer in say FL? :) Is that not a case of it being relative?
- iguy 9y agoIt actually seems pretty complicated here. IIRC the best previous studies just used years in education as a proxy -- not a great one, but an easy number to get, thus allowing large a sample size. This one seems to do some weird combination of that, plus several smaller datasets which have some kind of test score, all combined & normalized somehow. (Presumably they had some fun conversations with their referees about the statistics...)
- danieltillett 9y agoThis is the actual paper for those interested [0]. 0. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-017-0001-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-017-0001-5
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]
- Scaevolus 9y agoNot the first study showing this: see https://www.nature.com/articles/mp201185 https://www.nature.com/articles/mp201185 and its citations.
- purple-again 9y agoWell I hope this turns out to be true instead of another one of those sci pop headlines that never turns into anything (looking at you type 2 diabetes). It would really help a lot of people if we could segregate children as they enter the school system into more refined groups based on their needs rather than waiting for someone to select you for gifted programs like we do now. Then each group could focus on its unique challenges in trying to eliminate whatever portion of intelligence is derived from the environment.
- stormbrew 9y agoI'm sure segregating students based on a genetic test that tries to predict their intelligence wouldn't cause any kind of reinforcement of those trends at all or create disadvantages for those now branded dumb for their entire school career. Surely this could never happen.
- Scaevolus 9y agoWhy bother doing that when we already segregate students by more accurate IQ tests for gifted programs?
- barry-cotter 9y agoIndeed. And the older the testees get the more stable the results are. Infant and early childhood tests are predictive but by 14 or so the results are basically the adult results
- behindmyscreen 9y agoWas that meant with a tongue in cheek?
- MagnumOpus 9y agoSelection of the smartest (also tallest, least disease-prone etc) embryo during IVF. A trillion dollar industry once it is accurate enough - in 15-20 years.
- 9y ago
- m3kw9 9y agoThis is great, probably elimate a portion of interviews. :/
- Arbalest 9y agoCould just say "Gattaca"
- andrei_says_ 9y agoAnd soon employment/salary? Unless we establish laws which compensate for the asymmetrical distribution and power, we will see technology used to amplify it. Gattaca was truly great for many reasons, including showing us a (benign) version of such a society.
- ellisv 9y ago> And soon employment/salary? If you just check for two X chromosomes...
- j4mes_w 9y agoThanks for the constructive input, ellisv
- jgalt212 9y agoactually, I think this sort of stuff may be good for fairness of the distribution of wealth and income--especially so at the upper end. I mean the top 1%, 0.1% and 0.01% are much, much similar in abilities than they are in wages/wealth.
- raker 9y agoWhat type of compensation is appropriate for disparity in people's DNA? And, separately, how is DNA related to power?
- cy_hauser 9y agoDiana Moon? Is that you? I haven't seen you since the dance. --Harrison
- viperscape 9y agoGattaca, here we go
- chiefalchemist 9y agoIs it still correct / accurate to equate intelligence with IQ? I was under the impression that the IQ test has a number of biases (e.g., cultural) that leave it flawed. Also, what about creativity? Or (pardon me, just an example) emotional intelligence? An over-emphasis of the IQ just feels so 20th century.
- _rpd 9y agoThe study doesn't equate intelligence with IQ ... > Intelligence, also known as general cognitive function or simply g, describes the shared variance that exists between diverse measures of cognitive ability https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-017-0001-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-017-0001-5
- skybrian 9y agoI don't know if it's correct so much as that's how they normally define it and measure it for purposes of the study. You're of course free to come up with a different definition.
- mattcoles 9y agoFrom what I can tell they used verbal & numerical reasoning tests, which does to some degree fit a definition of intelligence. It doesn't measure anything well rounded about a person and it makes me pretty uncomfortable to think this kind of thing could actually be used to divide people.
- nukeop 9y ago"Cultural biases" in IQ tests are a myth. They are still the best way to measure intelligence. It was discussed on HN a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16548276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16548276
- swebs 9y ago>Is it still correct / accurate to equate intelligence with IQ? IQ is simply a way to quantify intelligence. >I was under the impression that the IQ test has a number of biases (e.g., cultural) that leave it flawed. There is actually no standardized way to measure IQ. You've heard criticisms of a certain test, but that is just one of many. There are tests that do no use any sort of cultural knowledge at all, such as Raven's Progressive Matrices. Theoretically, a cave man and a Harvard professor could reach the same score, assuming all other factors are the same. It only measures visual pattern recognition, but it is generally assumed that that is highly correlated with overall intelligence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven%27s_Progressive_Matrices https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raven%27s_Progressive_Matrices There are also g factor tests that attempt to measure overall intelligence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G_factor_(psychometrics) >or emotional intelligence Pretty much pseudoscience
- starpilot 9y agoAnd also, race: https://www.wired.com/2007/12/ps-dna/ https://www.wired.com/2007/12/ps-dna/ (2007) When will be comfortable accepting that "race" is biological? We need to test drugs on multiple races for this reason.
- behindmyscreen 9y agoNothing more significant than an eleven year old popular journalism report on genetic science? What about in the intervening 11 years? No new science on that?
- neveroffensive 9y agoAre you saying race isn't biological? Using the fact that the random article the above comment cited is 11 years old?
- burtness 9y agoAs another comment points out, a popular science article about a person's a product to law enforcement is not science. However, "race" is absolutely not biological because so little of race is physical. Nobody has ever denied that skin colour and facial features are biological, its the accompanying traits that round out what makes a "race" that have no significant biological basis
- neveroffensive 9y agoWhat term can we use to refer to skin color and facial features if race means cultural differences? Also isn't what you're talking about culture not race? Edit: I'm going to jump off on a tangent here, but this is something that really bothers me. Clearly to most people race refers to skin color and facial features. Just like to most people gender refers to biological sex. If you want to refer to the non-physical aspects of race, use the term culture, then there will be no confusion. If you wan't to refer to the non-physical aspects of gender, use the term gender identity or gender role.
- tyjen 9y ago
- swebs 9y ago""" Intelligence could be measured with a swab of saliva, or drop of blood, after scientists showed for the first time that a person’s IQ can be predicted just by studying their DNA. In the largest ever study looking at the genetic basis for intelligence, researchers at the University of Edinburgh and Harvard University discovered hundreds of new genes linked to brain power. Previous studies have suggested that between 50 per cent and 75 per cent of intelligence is inherited, and the rest comes through upbringing, friendship groups and education. That figure was calculated by studying identical twins who share the same DNA, therefore any differences in IQ between them must be non-genetic. But nobody knew which were the ‘smart genes.’ Now by studying the genetic data from more than 240,000 people, scientists have found 538 genes which are linked to intelligence. Researchers were even able to predict intelligence just based on a person’s DNA, a breakthrough which could potentially help doctors to diagnose impaired cognitive ability, or allow children to be given an tailor-made education based on their innate abilities. Scientists knew that a large part of intelligence was inherited but did not know the genes responsible Dr David Hill, of the University of Edinburgh’s Centre for Cognitive Ageing and Cognitive Epidemiology (CCACE) who led the research, said: “Our study identified a large number of genes linked to intelligence. “We were also able to predict intelligence in another group using only their DNA.” The study also showed that the same genes which influence intelligence are also linked to other biological processes such as length of life. Although it is known that intelligent people live longer it was generally assumed that the link was due to social causes, such as a better education, leading to a more well-paid job, which brings a higher standard of living and a healthier life. But the new research suggests that intelligent people are biologically fitter. The team also found that genes linked with problem-solving powers were associated with the process by which neurons carry signals from one place to another in the brain. A biological intelligence test could help create an individual curriculum for children “We have shown is that two biological processes neurogenesis, the process by which new brain cells are created, and myelination of the central nervous system are associated with intelligence differences,” added Dr Hill. “And some of the genetic variants that are linked with an increase in intelligence are also linked with an increase in life expectancy.” The study’s principal investigator, Professor Ian Deary, also from CCACE, said: “We know that environments and genes both contribute to the differences we observe in people’s intelligence. “This study adds to what we know about which genes influence intelligence, and suggests that health and intelligence are related in part because some of the same genes influence them.” Previous studies by King’s College London discovered that up to 65 per cent of the difference in pupil’s GCSE grades was down to genetics, after analysing genetic data from, 12,500 twins. They found that all exam results were highly heritable, demonstrating that genes explain a larger proportion of the differences between children. The research was published in the journal Molecular Psychiatry. """
- starrychloe 9y agoI wonder when there will be a swab test for political ideology?
- conistonwater 9y agoFrom the paper: > Between 3.64 and 6.84% of phenotypic intelligence (as measured by the VNR Test in UK Biobank) could be predicted (Supplementary Table 10); the upper limit is an improvement of ~43% on the largest reported estimate to date, of 4.8% [16]. Doesn't 7% seem quite small (though better than previous studies)? What am I missing?
- barry-cotter 9y agoYou’re not mssng anything. This is not the end, it’s just the end of the beginning. Ten years from now we’ll have tests that come within a narrow margin of error of predicting IQ from spitting in a test tube. Modulo malnutrition and serious physical abuse but the first at least is not common in the developed world.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> Ten years from now we’ll have tests that come within a narrow margin of error of predicting IQ from spitting in a test tube. Modulo malnutrition and serious physical abuse but the first at least is not common in the developed world. Malnutrition and serious physical abuse aren't the only environmental factors with a known significant impact on intelligence, and nutrition (particularly childhood nutrition) patterns with a serious adverse effect on IQ have been identified in research focussed on first world areas of study; they certainly aren't rate enough to be insignificant sources of variation in the first world.
- xyzzyz 9y agoWhat are other important environmental factors affecting IQ in first world? I haven't really heard of any other are as important as these, so I'm interested in learning about them.
- OrganicMSG 9y agoThere are many environmental poisons that affect brain development, consumption of lead, for instance. Also there are many diseases that can effect brain development, such as congenital syphilis.
- matte_black 9y agoTo me this kind of tech has great applications for gig economy type jobs, where workers with higher detected intelligence can be efficiently and accurately categorized and made available for a wide spectrum of problem solving tasks.
- bhouston 9y agoBut it would suck for those who do not pass the test. Would they by default get a lower wage?
- matte_black 9y agoIt’s not pass or fail, it’s a rating.
- dragonwriter 9y ago> To me this kind of tech has great applications for gig economy type jobs, where workers with higher detected intelligence can be efficiently and accurately categorized and made available for a wide spectrum of problem solving tasks. A genetic test that can predict a single-digit percent of the variation in a value which can reasonably inexpensively be measured more directly isn't even a step toward useful tech for that purpose.
- matte_black 9y agoWell, then I guess we’ll settle for IQ tests.
- AcerbicZero 9y agoRegardless of where the "average" intelligence level (As measured by IQ tests) is for any specific race/ethnicity/etc, all the data I've seen so far shows far more variation inside each group than between groups. For example, a group might have an average of ~100, and another ~90, but inside each group you have individuals varying between ~60 and ~180. The point I guess I'm trying to make is that people are individuals, and should be treated as such.
- swebs 9y agoGot a link to those studies?
- xyzzyz 9y agoYes, but if the variance is the same in both groups, then in the group with higher mean you might have orders of magnitude more people above certain cut-off. For example, suppose you have two groups, each one consisting of 1 billion people. Both groups have standard deviation of 15 IQ, but the mean of group 1 is 90, and the mean of group 2 is 100. Then, the IQ of 160 is 4 sigma above the mean of group 2, but 4.6 sigma above mean of group 1. This results in 31670 people above 160 IQ in group 2, but only 1531 people above 160 in group 1. With your cut-off of 180 IQ, only 1 individual out of 1 billion from group 1 will have IQ above 180, but almost 50 in group 2. Of course, each individual should be treated as such, but you have to take things like above into account if you are wondering for example why so many top sprinters are of certain genetical ancestry.
- deleted 9y ago[deleted]