3 ms·

What's your target market? If it is experienced developers, you'll have an hard time even for just the IDE.

by lelele 16y ago

jules 16y ago
My target market is intelligent developers who want to get a desktop or web application done as quickly as possible, somebody who gets a lot of value out of being more productive while not being limited by external factors. A YC founder rather than someone who combines snippets of PHP found on the web to make a site for a client. There are people paying for IDEs (e.g. IntelliJ IDEA & Resharper, Visual Studio), but this is an IDE for an already very widely used language backed by big companies. All of the attempts at developing a new language for a profit seem to have failed or at least not made it big (e.g. Lisp vendors, Dylan, Smalltalk vendors, Rebol) despite being better than the free alternatives in a lot of ways.
- lelele 16y ago
  > A YC founder rather than someone who combines snippets of PHP found on the web to make a site for a client. You should consider your target audience carefully. For instance, a startup founder is very likely short of cash, so she will be more inclined to choose, if not a free implementation, a cheap one. Could that pay back your development efforts? Because your development efforts will be hefty. Remember that to be attractive to smart developers, your language will have to be better than the languages you have mentioned, and by a reasonable margin. Don't underestimate the difficulty of designing a good editor, either. I'm saying this because you have said "not made it big". If you are after just making a living doing what you like, maybe the success of Clojure in that regard can be encouraging. Have you considered tapping the non-technical audience? Maybe many non-technical users would be delighted to be able to customize their environment. If you are looking for a challenging intellectual task, don't underestimate the difficulty of designing simple tools. I'd like to provide more creative suggestions, but that's all I can say. EDIT: You know, we developers tend to think about other developers, and we forgot how our knowledge could be beneficial to "outsiders".
  - jules 16y ago
    The YC founder vs PHP "scripter" was meant as two extremes and my target is closer to the former. But indeed they do not have a lot of cash. That's why I wanted to try and go after "Microsoft Developers". - They seem to have the money because they buy expensive IDEs, expensive version control systems, expensive things that allow them to track project progress, etc. - They care less about whether what they are using is open source - Building it on top of .NET means development costs are much reduced but still massive - They are using overly complicated and not very usable tools/libraries on .NET > I'm saying this because you have said "not made it big". If you are after just making a living doing what you like, maybe the success of Clojure in that regard can be encouraging. Yes I would be happy with something like that too, but if I have something that improves someones productivity by 10% that provides a lot of value; I'd like to turn this value into a financial success too ;) > Have you considered tapping the non-technical audience? Maybe many non-technical users would be delighted to be able to customize their environment. If you are looking for a challenging intellectual task, don't underestimate the difficulty of designing simple tools. The problem with this is that I have zero ideas in that space...that said it's definitely an interesting space. Making some of the things you can do by programming available to a non-technical audience seems very hard though.
    - lelele 16y ago
      Well, I just say: go know your potential customers. I still think that designing a worthy new language + IDE would be really hard work. However, don't take my words! Have you considered developing tools or plugin to easy their work? For instance, I'm using WholeTomato's Visual Assist and it really rocks. > The problem with this is that I have zero ideas in that space...that said it's definitely an interesting space. Making some of the things you can do by programming available to a non-technical audience seems very hard though. Just don't go overboard. I urge you to go out and meet people, and look for ways to easy their pain. For instance, you will be shocked at how small-business owners struggle to accomplish simple tasks. At how big-companies employee struggle with outdated software. Good luck!
      - gaius 16y ago

What's your target market? If it is experienced developers, you'll have an hard time even for just the IDE.

by lelele 16y ago

What's your target market? If it is experienced developers, you'll have an hard time even for just the IDE.

jules 16y ago

My target market is intelligent developers who want to get a desktop or web application done as quickly as possible, somebody who gets a lot of value out of being more productive while not being limited by external factors. A YC founder rather than someone who combines snippets of PHP found on the web to make a site for a client. There are people paying for IDEs (e.g. IntelliJ IDEA & Resharper, Visual Studio), but this is an IDE for an already very widely used language backed by big companies. All of the attempts at developing a new language for a profit seem to have failed or at least not made it big (e.g. Lisp vendors, Dylan, Smalltalk vendors, Rebol) despite being better than the free alternatives in a lot of ways.

lelele 16y ago
> A YC founder rather than someone who combines snippets of PHP found on the web to make a site for a client. You should consider your target audience carefully. For instance, a startup founder is very likely short of cash, so she will be more inclined to choose, if not a free implementation, a cheap one. Could that pay back your development efforts? Because your development efforts will be hefty. Remember that to be attractive to smart developers, your language will have to be better than the languages you have mentioned, and by a reasonable margin. Don't underestimate the difficulty of designing a good editor, either. I'm saying this because you have said "not made it big". If you are after just making a living doing what you like, maybe the success of Clojure in that regard can be encouraging. Have you considered tapping the non-technical audience? Maybe many non-technical users would be delighted to be able to customize their environment. If you are looking for a challenging intellectual task, don't underestimate the difficulty of designing simple tools. I'd like to provide more creative suggestions, but that's all I can say. EDIT: You know, we developers tend to think about other developers, and we forgot how our knowledge could be beneficial to "outsiders".
- jules 16y ago
  The YC founder vs PHP "scripter" was meant as two extremes and my target is closer to the former. But indeed they do not have a lot of cash. That's why I wanted to try and go after "Microsoft Developers". - They seem to have the money because they buy expensive IDEs, expensive version control systems, expensive things that allow them to track project progress, etc. - They care less about whether what they are using is open source - Building it on top of .NET means development costs are much reduced but still massive - They are using overly complicated and not very usable tools/libraries on .NET > I'm saying this because you have said "not made it big". If you are after just making a living doing what you like, maybe the success of Clojure in that regard can be encouraging. Yes I would be happy with something like that too, but if I have something that improves someones productivity by 10% that provides a lot of value; I'd like to turn this value into a financial success too ;) > Have you considered tapping the non-technical audience? Maybe many non-technical users would be delighted to be able to customize their environment. If you are looking for a challenging intellectual task, don't underestimate the difficulty of designing simple tools. The problem with this is that I have zero ideas in that space...that said it's definitely an interesting space. Making some of the things you can do by programming available to a non-technical audience seems very hard though.
  - lelele 16y ago
    Well, I just say: go know your potential customers. I still think that designing a worthy new language + IDE would be really hard work. However, don't take my words! Have you considered developing tools or plugin to easy their work? For instance, I'm using WholeTomato's Visual Assist and it really rocks. > The problem with this is that I have zero ideas in that space...that said it's definitely an interesting space. Making some of the things you can do by programming available to a non-technical audience seems very hard though. Just don't go overboard. I urge you to go out and meet people, and look for ways to easy their pain. For instance, you will be shocked at how small-business owners struggle to accomplish simple tasks. At how big-companies employee struggle with outdated software. Good luck!
    - gaius 16y ago