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As a counterpoint, I admire my immigrant parents for the ethic they attempted to impart onto me and don’t blame them even if at times I thought they were being

As a counterpoint, I admire my immigrant parents for the ethic they attempted to impart onto me and don’t blame them even if at times I thought they were being “unfair.” I think that far more worrying is the dangerous narrative pushed by people insecure about their accomplishments and aided by people jealous of others’ carefree childhoods that seeks to diminish immigrant accomplishment as lacking individualism or initiative. If it’s just strict parents and the kid is just forced to do it, then we can simultaneously criticize the parents, strip the kid of individuality and attribute any of their accomplishments to things outside of their control. Again, just placing this here as a counterpoint because too often I see this discussion play out and get upvoted in the same way.

qiqing 9y ago
To be clear, I admire my immigrant parents for their work ethic too, and for that influence on me. And the counterpoint about diminishing the accomplishments of others is something that definitely needs more attention. I've been casually called a "robot" or a "trained monkey" by well-meaning non-immigrants in the U.S. (even kids in gifted programs) out of what I perceive to be jealousy. Relevant to the particular article, I did notice that my cousins who lived in China worked a lot, lot harder than my cousins who lived in the U.S. (and myself), even though we typically worked harder than non-immigrant children.
stcredzero 9y ago
I think that far more worrying is the dangerous narrative pushed by people insecure about their accomplishments and aided by people jealous of others’ carefree childhoods that seeks to diminish immigrant accomplishment as lacking individualism or initiative. In my experience, this narrative was pervasive in the 70's and 80's in the white majority areas where I lived, that my humanity was substandard or lacking entirely. This is precisely why communication between parents and children on a genuine human level is all the more important. If an Asian parent just tries to pull unilateral parental authority, flying in the face of the different contextual reality around them, then they play right into that narrative of the inhuman/less-human parent. This is not to say that parents should be permissive or that they should treat children as equals. I think that parents should be strict, and that children's status needs to be earned. Parents cannot become the friends of their children, until the children have become adults. However, parents who immigrated from a different culture can not act as if the surrounding culture is going to support them in the way their own culture supported their parents -- if they want to maintain their credibility. Parents who immigrated from a different culture have to maintain their credibility by living principles and by example. Denying reality and being unwilling to learn themselves will destroy their credibility. A six year old child is going to notice that your grammar is poor, you don't get the jokes, and that you can't tell the commercials from the TV shows. That child will notice the illogical puffery of insisting that one is always right because one is the parent. In that situation, it is better to live an ideal of always striving to become more correct, instead of insisting on being correct by fiat when you are clearly not correct about many things.
- jonathanyc 9y ago
  > A six year old child is going to notice that your grammar is poor, you don't get the jokes, and that you can't tell the commercials from the TV shows. That child will notice the illogical puffery of insisting that one is always right This brought up some painful memories for me because I remember thinking like this when I was younger. My mom called me out once as a kid for assuming she was less intelligent or incorrect just because of her accent. At the time I thought she was just trying to win the argument, but now with the perspective given by time and by talking to others I see that she was right. I think you are coming from the right place but that you are trying to place blame on parents essentially for failing to “fit in” as much as for being strict. When we say that parents “play into” claims that they are being less human, I think that we are taking part in making that the unfortunate reality.
  - stcredzero 9y ago
    My mom called me out once as a kid for assuming she was less intelligent or incorrect just because of her accent. It's one thing to correct your child on that misconception -- that's correct. It's another thing to insist on using an English word incorrectly -- that's incorrect. I think you are coming from the right place but that you are trying to place blame on parents essentially for failing to “fit in” as much as for being strict. Again, I'm not talking about being strict. I'm talking about basic communication and maintaining your credibility. What do you think about the boss who would rather maintain face and keep his dominance, as opposed to a boss who actually listens and prioritizes learning the truth? It's the same thing.

qiqing 9y ago

To be clear, I admire my immigrant parents for their work ethic too, and for that influence on me. And the counterpoint about diminishing the accomplishments of others is something that definitely needs more attention. I've been casually called a "robot" or a "trained monkey" by well-meaning non-immigrants in the U.S. (even kids in gifted programs) out of what I perceive to be jealousy. Relevant to the particular article, I did notice that my cousins who lived in China worked a lot, lot harder than my cousins who lived in the U.S. (and myself), even though we typically worked harder than non-immigrant children.

stcredzero 9y ago

I think that far more worrying is the dangerous narrative pushed by people insecure about their accomplishments and aided by people jealous of others’ carefree childhoods that seeks to diminish immigrant accomplishment as lacking individualism or initiative. In my experience, this narrative was pervasive in the 70's and 80's in the white majority areas where I lived, that my humanity was substandard or lacking entirely. This is precisely why communication between parents and children on a genuine human level is all the more important. If an Asian parent just tries to pull unilateral parental authority, flying in the face of the different contextual reality around them, then they play right into that narrative of the inhuman/less-human parent. This is not to say that parents should be permissive or that they should treat children as equals. I think that parents should be strict, and that children's status needs to be earned. Parents cannot become the friends of their children, until the children have become adults. However, parents who immigrated from a different culture can not act as if the surrounding culture is going to support them in the way their own culture supported their parents -- if they want to maintain their credibility. Parents who immigrated from a different culture have to maintain their credibility by living principles and by example. Denying reality and being unwilling to learn themselves will destroy their credibility. A six year old child is going to notice that your grammar is poor, you don't get the jokes, and that you can't tell the commercials from the TV shows. That child will notice the illogical puffery of insisting that one is always right because one is the parent. In that situation, it is better to live an ideal of always striving to become more correct, instead of insisting on being correct by fiat when you are clearly not correct about many things.

jonathanyc 9y ago
> A six year old child is going to notice that your grammar is poor, you don't get the jokes, and that you can't tell the commercials from the TV shows. That child will notice the illogical puffery of insisting that one is always right This brought up some painful memories for me because I remember thinking like this when I was younger. My mom called me out once as a kid for assuming she was less intelligent or incorrect just because of her accent. At the time I thought she was just trying to win the argument, but now with the perspective given by time and by talking to others I see that she was right. I think you are coming from the right place but that you are trying to place blame on parents essentially for failing to “fit in” as much as for being strict. When we say that parents “play into” claims that they are being less human, I think that we are taking part in making that the unfortunate reality.
- stcredzero 9y ago
  My mom called me out once as a kid for assuming she was less intelligent or incorrect just because of her accent. It's one thing to correct your child on that misconception -- that's correct. It's another thing to insist on using an English word incorrectly -- that's incorrect. I think you are coming from the right place but that you are trying to place blame on parents essentially for failing to “fit in” as much as for being strict. Again, I'm not talking about being strict. I'm talking about basic communication and maintaining your credibility. What do you think about the boss who would rather maintain face and keep his dominance, as opposed to a boss who actually listens and prioritizes learning the truth? It's the same thing.