8 ms·

America's aversion to the role of luck is based on the Protestant work ethic. There is no chance and everything is predetermined by God's grace. God's grace is

America's aversion to the role of luck is based on the Protestant work ethic. There is no chance and everything is predetermined by God's grace. God's grace is demonstrated by hard work, frugality, and discipline. There is a concept of double predetermination where you already need to be saved to be saved. Which means the poor is poor not because of chance, but because they lack God's grace.

eksemplar 9y ago
This is true, but the root of modern democracy has its birth in the same line of hard working and responsible way of living humbly.
- fjsolwmv 9y ago
  What is modern vs not-modern democracy? Romans and USAmericans both owned slaves.
  - model_m_warrior 9y ago
    Probably means you don't go to jail in 2018 for mean tweets. Or some other modern Nazi line, amirite?
  - eksemplar 9y ago
    Classic democracy doesn’t include human rights. If you’re not a male citizen you have no right to be heard, and even then, the majority have the right to execute or exile you if they find you annoying. Modern democracy is build on a core belief that everyone is created equal and that we are each responsible for our own lives. Something which extremely similar to the core thesis of Lutherism which laid the foundation for the renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment that eventually led to modern liberal democracy. It’s a lot more complicated than that of course, but this is the Internet not a PhD. :)
aerique 9y ago
Convenient.
- MadSudaca 9y ago
  Excessive belief in luck seems more convenient to me. At least by trying to work hard you're taking responsibility for yourself.
  - sgift 9y ago
    "Excessive" - maybe. On the other hand 'taking responsibility for yourself' leads very fast to the just-world fallacy when applied to others: People don't deserve help, if they worked harder they would have reached their goals.
    - MadSudaca 9y ago
      Maybe. I'd much rather fall closer to the "just-world fallacy" that you mention, than to the "your success is based mostly on 'luck' so we must resort to a 'higher power' to make things 'fair'" side of things.
ranie93 9y ago
Romans 9:21-23 https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%209.21-23 https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%209.21-23
sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago
Be that as it may, this blog is about a specific paper and the strength of its claims. I don't really think puritanism has anything to do with whether this paper's model or inferences are sound.
- giardini 9y ago
  But puritanism's remains are responsible for many of the opinions critical of the paper's conclusions. Just ask a few wealthy persons about this paper or others like it: they are usually fiercely critical and have bought completely into ideas that support their "blessed" position in society.
athenot 9y ago
The irony is not lost on Catholics, who are the recipient of much criticism from Protestants who view "saved by works" as an insult to God's grace. (The theology is actually a mix of both since faith without actions is inconsistent, but I'm refering to the stereotype from the Protestant side.)
Helmet 9y ago
Well, you know, the Protestant notion of predestination is something quite interesting. I think that it's very pure in a sense, in that it strips away the sort of material or "transactional" nature of faith. Good acts don't guarantee you a place in the afterlife - they stand alone, whole in and of themselves, giving them a moral dimension outside the bounds of faith. It's not that your fate is predetermined, which it is, but more importantly, you don't KNOW what the predetermination is. I won't digress since I don't know if HN is a good place for a discussion of the metaphysics of predestination, but it's something very interesting to think about.
ythn 9y ago
Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater... Yes, we need to get rid of poor shaming, but that doesn't mean we should also get rid of the culture of hard word, frugality, and discipline.
dingbat 9y ago
amusing that a comment designed to mock the irrationality and simple-mindedness of "Americans", itself provides a strong example of overgeneralizing entire populations, society and culture into simple, easy-to-understand tropes suitable for simpletons.
agumonkey 9y ago
It's funny how old religious ideas are simple observations in a way. By doing something everyday you just accumulate lots of subtle knowledge and roots in any domain. So mathematically you have lots of chances to get it right at one point. More than "luck" to me the main factor is a blend of inner desire and context that allows you just enough time to think and do.
- Justsignedup 9y ago
  Jim Carrey said it best (paraphrased): It is by sheer luck that an opportunity presents itself. But once it does it is up to you to have the means to execute on it, and to execute on it. The good news is that opportunities present themselves often in life. So just get to where you can act on them, and once you see one, act.

eksemplar 9y ago

This is true, but the root of modern democracy has its birth in the same line of hard working and responsible way of living humbly.

fjsolwmv 9y ago
What is modern vs not-modern democracy? Romans and USAmericans both owned slaves.
- model_m_warrior 9y ago
  Probably means you don't go to jail in 2018 for mean tweets. Or some other modern Nazi line, amirite?
- eksemplar 9y ago
  Classic democracy doesn’t include human rights. If you’re not a male citizen you have no right to be heard, and even then, the majority have the right to execute or exile you if they find you annoying. Modern democracy is build on a core belief that everyone is created equal and that we are each responsible for our own lives. Something which extremely similar to the core thesis of Lutherism which laid the foundation for the renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment that eventually led to modern liberal democracy. It’s a lot more complicated than that of course, but this is the Internet not a PhD. :)

aerique 9y ago

Convenient.

MadSudaca 9y ago
Excessive belief in luck seems more convenient to me. At least by trying to work hard you're taking responsibility for yourself.
- sgift 9y ago
  "Excessive" - maybe. On the other hand 'taking responsibility for yourself' leads very fast to the just-world fallacy when applied to others: People don't deserve help, if they worked harder they would have reached their goals.
  - MadSudaca 9y ago
    Maybe. I'd much rather fall closer to the "just-world fallacy" that you mention, than to the "your success is based mostly on 'luck' so we must resort to a 'higher power' to make things 'fair'" side of things.

ranie93 9y ago

Romans 9:21-23 https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%209.21-23 https://biblia.com/bible/nasb95/Rom%209.21-23

sdhgaiojfsa 9y ago

Be that as it may, this blog is about a specific paper and the strength of its claims. I don't really think puritanism has anything to do with whether this paper's model or inferences are sound.

giardini 9y ago
But puritanism's remains are responsible for many of the opinions critical of the paper's conclusions. Just ask a few wealthy persons about this paper or others like it: they are usually fiercely critical and have bought completely into ideas that support their "blessed" position in society.

athenot 9y ago

The irony is not lost on Catholics, who are the recipient of much criticism from Protestants who view "saved by works" as an insult to God's grace. (The theology is actually a mix of both since faith without actions is inconsistent, but I'm refering to the stereotype from the Protestant side.)

Helmet 9y ago

Well, you know, the Protestant notion of predestination is something quite interesting. I think that it's very pure in a sense, in that it strips away the sort of material or "transactional" nature of faith. Good acts don't guarantee you a place in the afterlife - they stand alone, whole in and of themselves, giving them a moral dimension outside the bounds of faith. It's not that your fate is predetermined, which it is, but more importantly, you don't KNOW what the predetermination is. I won't digress since I don't know if HN is a good place for a discussion of the metaphysics of predestination, but it's something very interesting to think about.

ythn 9y ago

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater... Yes, we need to get rid of poor shaming, but that doesn't mean we should also get rid of the culture of hard word, frugality, and discipline.

dingbat 9y ago

amusing that a comment designed to mock the irrationality and simple-mindedness of "Americans", itself provides a strong example of overgeneralizing entire populations, society and culture into simple, easy-to-understand tropes suitable for simpletons.

agumonkey 9y ago

It's funny how old religious ideas are simple observations in a way. By doing something everyday you just accumulate lots of subtle knowledge and roots in any domain. So mathematically you have lots of chances to get it right at one point. More than "luck" to me the main factor is a blend of inner desire and context that allows you just enough time to think and do.

Justsignedup 9y ago
Jim Carrey said it best (paraphrased): It is by sheer luck that an opportunity presents itself. But once it does it is up to you to have the means to execute on it, and to execute on it. The good news is that opportunities present themselves often in life. So just get to where you can act on them, and once you see one, act.