5 ms·

It's super cool, super smart, super fresh, but still sounds like those synthesizer in 90's. I was really expecting something new when I opened the link...

pknopf 9y ago
Yeah, it seems like a lot of work and technical know-how to make something that doesn't really sound new. Seems more like a hipster-ish take on making music. "I only make music on instruments that I can build myself."
- operatorius 9y ago
  well you have pure data, max/msp, reaktor, etc for that. These experiments with ML can approximate the soundwaves generated by particular instruments where the soundwaves produced are very complex, but other than that there are tons of software that can help you design any sounds you like. Machine learning is like the micro thing in the 70's-80's companies are trying to put it everywhere they can despite there are no benefits to the existing convenient products/solutions or not incorporating ml at all but still labeling the product. i.e. quoted from wiki: Microwaves are a form of electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths ranging from one meter to one millimeter. I see nowhere the 10^-6 meter waves being used in our commonly used kitchen appliance
  - TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
    There are any number of ways to approximate the soundwaves generated by particular instruments that work better than this. There are also any number of ways to make cool new sounds, even using old tech. (My current favourite is Aparillo by SugarBytes, which uses FM but sounds absolutely amazing.) This Google project seems to be a technology demonstrator made by people who seem curiously unaware of the domain they're trying to work in. There is a lot of competition in this space and this project is doing nothing remotely new, including the ML element. All of which might be forgivable if the sound was unbelievably awesome... but it isn't.
- mmjaa 9y ago
  Hey now, us synth-diy guys have been around a lot longer than hipsters! :P Seriously though, this announcement from Google does reek of "invented in ignorance"-style NIH'erism .. but then again, it may be an effective marketing ploy, given that there are so, so many kids getting into synthesisers, who don't have a foggy clue what decades of technology has produced, in terms of the state of the art. Its a common thing in synthesisers though - someone comes up with some 'amazing new technique nobody has ever thought of before', and ends up .. producing sounds just like the 303's and DX's before them ..
- tjr225 9y ago
  > Seems more like a hipster-ish take on making music. "I only make music on instruments that I can build myself." I wish people would stop using this tired and bland description of people's motives to enjoy fresh, new, creative and diy. It seems pretty intellectually shallow to me.
  - pknopf 9y ago
    > It seems pretty intellectually shallow to me. So does spending a crazy amount of time and tech to implement something that could be done in other existing synthesizers with a fraction of the time/effort, just so that you can say "I made this with ML."
    - tjr225 9y ago
      I disagree, I think it's a perfectly interesting project and worthy of experimentation regardless of the outcome.
      - pknopf 9y ago
        If I could produce the same sounds with cheaper equipment in a fraction of the time, what makes this experiment worthy? Spoiler alert, it's the buzz around ML.
        tjr225 9y ago
        Okay, fine. You think ML is pointless- I still posit that calling something "hipster" is dated and shallow and says more about the person saying it than the thing they are describing.
intrasight 9y ago
Agreed. I am not impressed by the sound samples. I was expecting an AI version of Audio Modeling's SWAM engine.
veli_joza 9y ago
Yeah, I'm also disappointed. 'Fnure' sounds like 8-bit sound effect, but even input samples of flute and snare sound bad. Garbage in, garbage out. The device is a nice toy, but even they say it's unpredictable. Usually you need about 4 samples per octave and 4 samples for different velocities (note loudness) for professional use. Would NSynth generate all those samples in uniform way so they can work together as a single instrument?
clay_to_n 9y ago
Yeah, the sample rate is really low (I assume to make it more performant) so they all sound bitcrushed.

pknopf 9y ago

Yeah, it seems like a lot of work and technical know-how to make something that doesn't really sound new. Seems more like a hipster-ish take on making music. "I only make music on instruments that I can build myself."

operatorius 9y ago
well you have pure data, max/msp, reaktor, etc for that. These experiments with ML can approximate the soundwaves generated by particular instruments where the soundwaves produced are very complex, but other than that there are tons of software that can help you design any sounds you like. Machine learning is like the micro thing in the 70's-80's companies are trying to put it everywhere they can despite there are no benefits to the existing convenient products/solutions or not incorporating ml at all but still labeling the product. i.e. quoted from wiki: Microwaves are a form of electromagnetic radiation with wavelengths ranging from one meter to one millimeter. I see nowhere the 10^-6 meter waves being used in our commonly used kitchen appliance
- TheOtherHobbes 9y ago
  There are any number of ways to approximate the soundwaves generated by particular instruments that work better than this. There are also any number of ways to make cool new sounds, even using old tech. (My current favourite is Aparillo by SugarBytes, which uses FM but sounds absolutely amazing.) This Google project seems to be a technology demonstrator made by people who seem curiously unaware of the domain they're trying to work in. There is a lot of competition in this space and this project is doing nothing remotely new, including the ML element. All of which might be forgivable if the sound was unbelievably awesome... but it isn't.
mmjaa 9y ago
Hey now, us synth-diy guys have been around a lot longer than hipsters! :P Seriously though, this announcement from Google does reek of "invented in ignorance"-style NIH'erism .. but then again, it may be an effective marketing ploy, given that there are so, so many kids getting into synthesisers, who don't have a foggy clue what decades of technology has produced, in terms of the state of the art. Its a common thing in synthesisers though - someone comes up with some 'amazing new technique nobody has ever thought of before', and ends up .. producing sounds just like the 303's and DX's before them ..
tjr225 9y ago
> Seems more like a hipster-ish take on making music. "I only make music on instruments that I can build myself." I wish people would stop using this tired and bland description of people's motives to enjoy fresh, new, creative and diy. It seems pretty intellectually shallow to me.
- pknopf 9y ago
  > It seems pretty intellectually shallow to me. So does spending a crazy amount of time and tech to implement something that could be done in other existing synthesizers with a fraction of the time/effort, just so that you can say "I made this with ML."
  - tjr225 9y ago
    I disagree, I think it's a perfectly interesting project and worthy of experimentation regardless of the outcome.
    - pknopf 9y ago
      If I could produce the same sounds with cheaper equipment in a fraction of the time, what makes this experiment worthy? Spoiler alert, it's the buzz around ML.
      - tjr225 9y ago
        Okay, fine. You think ML is pointless- I still posit that calling something "hipster" is dated and shallow and says more about the person saying it than the thing they are describing.

intrasight 9y ago

Agreed. I am not impressed by the sound samples. I was expecting an AI version of Audio Modeling's SWAM engine.

veli_joza 9y ago

Yeah, I'm also disappointed. 'Fnure' sounds like 8-bit sound effect, but even input samples of flute and snare sound bad. Garbage in, garbage out. The device is a nice toy, but even they say it's unpredictable. Usually you need about 4 samples per octave and 4 samples for different velocities (note loudness) for professional use. Would NSynth generate all those samples in uniform way so they can work together as a single instrument?

clay_to_n 9y ago

Yeah, the sample rate is really low (I assume to make it more performant) so they all sound bitcrushed.